Ubisoft = King Midas??

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Ermelloth
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 19
Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Location: Lunarfall Garrison, Draenor
Contact:

Ubisoft = King Midas??

Postby Ermelloth » Jan 31 2015, 12:43

Remember the ancient Greek legend about the king Midas? He was known for his avarice; one day he asked the Gods that everything he touches would become golden. Eventually this nearly killed him, as any food or drink he tried to consume became golden too.

Ubisoft seems to me akin of Midas, just with one exception: everything they touch becomes guano.

After complete failure with Heroes 6 release they ruined a game which is 15 years old - Heroes3. Would you believe??

The game crushes every time I put a hero on a boat (the following turn when the hero becomes naval). Thus, any naval map is completely unplayable.

The game crushes on attempt to sell artifacts as well.

The game doesn't offer a RMG! Thank God I still had my old Heroes 3 Complete copy and made a RoE random map there, saved as RoE and inserted it into the new game's directory.

The mouse cursor is lagging out every time I play. And I have 3-month-old monster i7 PC with Windows 7, not some buggy old machine.

Now the question is: HOW can you make a rock-solid game, which is successfully modded multiple times (HotA being super stable too), suddenly all-unstable, crushy and laggy after just a graphic update, which shouldn't greatly change its source code??

I will never ever buy any Ubisoft product again.

Bersaglio
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 60
Joined: 17 Jun 2011

Postby Bersaglio » Jan 31 2015, 14:29

+1
Ubisoft should be immediately disbanded for all desecrated games. :devil:

User avatar
orzie
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 79
Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Location: Russia
Contact:

Postby orzie » Jan 31 2015, 15:20

I second this.

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1004
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Re: Ubisoft = King Midas??

Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 31 2015, 16:05

Ermelloth wrote:Remember the ancient Greek legend about the king Midas? He was known for his avarice; one day he asked the Gods that everything he touches would become golden. Eventually this nearly killed him, as any food or drink he tried to consume became golden too.

Ubisoft seems to me akin of Midas, just with one exception: everything they touch becomes guano.


Actually, it may just be everything you touch. To wit:

The game crushes every time I put a hero on a boat (the following turn when the hero becomes naval). Thus, any naval map is completely unplayable.


I have not experienced this.

The game crushes on attempt to sell artifacts as well.


I have not experienced this.

The game doesn't offer a RMG! Thank God I still had my old Heroes 3 Complete copy and made a RoE random map there, saved as RoE and inserted it into the new game's directory.


RoE didn't have one, either, as I recall, and that is the code base they had to work with. Otherwise we'd have the AB expansion, which introduced both the Campaign Editor and the RMG. My memory may be playing tricks on me in this regard.

The mouse cursor is lagging out every time I play. And I have 3-month-old monster i7 PC with Windows 7, not some buggy old machine.


I have not experienced this problem.

Now the question is: HOW can you make a rock-solid game, which is successfully modded multiple times (HotA being super stable too), suddenly all-unstable, crushy and laggy after just a graphic update, which shouldn't greatly change its source code??


Actually, the question is: why didn't you double-check to make sure the problem is general rather than on your end? As I said above, the problem is that your specific copy of the game has turned to guano as the result of your touch.

More generally and without using your own expressions, the problems may well be specific to your machine/windows version. The game is running smoothly on my computer, so I'm prone to assume that it runs smoothly on theirs. Thus, why wouldn't they release it? How would they know that it crashes on your machine?

A supplementary question is why you didn't do the research before buying the product. I knew going in that this was RoE.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
Ermelloth
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 19
Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Location: Lunarfall Garrison, Draenor
Contact:

Postby Ermelloth » Jan 31 2015, 19:28

2Bandobras:

My friend who also bought a Steam copy is having same boat crush. I don't know what could be wrong "at my end", cause Steam game versions, I believe, are identical.

If there is an issue with Win7... well, Win 7 IS the most used operation system at the moment (worldwide). So, such issues shouldn't exist in first place. Maybe on Android platform or other systems it doesn't cause these crushes, but 2 users of Win7 have reported the same issues.

Also, read bug reports on Ubisoft forums. Other people confirmed the bugs I've reported. Actually, even their dev team confirmed several of the bugs I listed. See yourself:

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/10 ... date-30-01)

Maybe next time you do some research as well before throwing yourself at someone's throat? I knew that hobbits can be D-heads sometimes, but you exceeded my humble expectations :D

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1004
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 31 2015, 19:50

Since my research comment was specifically about the lack of the RMG, I'll stand by it. RoE did not have one, and that is the game they said they were releasing.

As for the rest, the point is simply that if the bug's not universal, it's possible it made it through testing, and it's unreasonable to blame them for that.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
Ermelloth
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 19
Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Location: Lunarfall Garrison, Draenor
Contact:

Postby Ermelloth » Jan 31 2015, 19:58

RMG is not a problem for me, I own Heroes3 Complete and also have WoG 3.58f and HotA installed. So I just made a random RoE map with my H3Complete Map Editor and copied it into HD folder. Voila, problem solved.

The boat thing is, however, pretty game over for me. At least until it gets fixed for Win7 users.

User avatar
Pol
Admin
Admin
Posts: 9176
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Location: IN SOMNIS VERITAS
Contact:

Postby Pol » Jan 31 2015, 19:59

@Ermelloth
It's about how you act to others. If you will be polite it will return, if you start with accusation and holy crusade it will return. That's regarding to your comment
Hostility ... however / care
which you so promptly edited.

Fact that bugs are on the official bug list is nice, it's first step to fix them. But it doesn't mean that there are all bugs and also it doesn't say how many people are affected.

As for what Ubisoft changed, they changed quite more than just a graphics.
"We made it!"
The Archives | Collection of H3&WoG files | Older albeit still useful | CH Downloads
PC Specs: A10-7850K, FM2A88X+K, 16GB-1600, SSD-MLC-G3, 1TB-HDD-G3, MAYA44, SP10 500W Be Quiet

User avatar
Ermelloth
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 19
Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Location: Lunarfall Garrison, Draenor
Contact:

Postby Ermelloth » Feb 1 2015, 0:46

It's about how you act to others.


Ubisoft =/= "others".

I wasn't rude to anyone on these forums or any particular people before Tuk's outrage.

However, I have all the rights to be angry on the company who had a such a disaster with Heroes 6.

How many bugs were in the game when 6 was released the first time? It was hardly playable. Still, I spent as much as 54 euro on this game. In comparison, WoW expansions cost 30-35 or so, but they worth every cent. And since I don't have a Dwarven Treasury in my home but instead I work hard to earn the money I spend on my games (50 euros is an average salary for 2 workdays in my country) - it's more than a valid reason to be angry.

I could spend 50 euros on going out with my wife two times as well.

I lost my faith in Ubisoft back then. Now, I gave them one more chance.. and at the moment I regret I did.

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1004
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Bandobras Took » Feb 1 2015, 7:12

Ermelloth wrote:
It's about how you act to others.


Ubisoft =/= "others".

I wasn't rude to anyone on these forums or any particular people before Tuk's outrage.

However, I have all the rights to be angry on the company who had a such a disaster with Heroes 6.


Granted that perception of outrage is totally subjective, I would point out that this particular forum is for discussion of Heroes 1-4, not 6.

And I just successfully played through a large (and thoroughly enjoyable) multiplayer game with no crashes. Again to point out specifically how it's possible to release a game that bugs out only on some systems -- if it doesn't crash on all systems, then it likely wasn't crashing on theirs.

Ubisoft has yet to do as much to ruin the Heroes of Might & Magic franchise as 3do did by driving JVC to burn-out, laying off a lot of NWC, and releasing Heroes IV in the state they did. Not to mention going bankrupt.

Speaking strictly of Heroes of Might & Magic, Ubisoft has kept the franchise alive for a seventh installment when I seriously doubted it would ever get to the fifth.

So, to answer the question in the title of the thread: no. Ubisoft does not equal King Midas. Everything they touch does not turn to gold. Nor, following the exception stated in the original post, do they destroy everything they touch. If the latter were true, there would have been nothing past their first attempt at a Heroes game.

The more moderate description is probably accurate: they're doing their best under the limits of a corporate body. They believed Heroes 3 HD was ready for release. On my system, at least, it was. Playing Heroes 3, though, has been a forcible reminder that they have not managed to match NWC at its height. But I'm less inclined to condemn them for that than to recognize the validity of their efforts.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
Pitsu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1816
Joined: 22 Nov 2005

Postby Pitsu » Feb 1 2015, 16:37

Bandobras Took wrote:Speaking strictly of Heroes of Might & Magic, Ubisoft has kept the franchise alive for a seventh installment when I seriously doubted it would ever get to the fifth.


And thats why we should be grateful for necromancers, because they keep zombies "alive". Undead life is disliked by some "holy crusaders" but it seems there are enough of those who value even undead life more than resting in peace.

User avatar
Salamandre
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1032
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: France
Contact:

Postby Salamandre » Feb 1 2015, 17:19

Personally I think original graphics were piece of art, and the HD ones being an outrage based on the total lack of consumers artistic sense. Is like (sorry for exaggeration) starting to fix Renaissance paintings by adding clearer shapes, contrasts and colors. Many will say it looks better. Many will be wrong.

Now Ubi does what ever company does, it does business. You don't condemn the wolf for being hungry and killing goats if your home is to close to wild nature. And this is what it went on: Ubi saw people is still interested by the game, but Ubi didn't make any substantial effort to check how the game evolved, what are the modifications proposed today, what bugs the fans fixed, how maps look today. Why? Because they think consumers are for the most lacking quality standards, and is true. You wash some graphics, everyone falls from chair.

But when you spent years as me, for example, to check then fix bugs, mod things inside Heroes 3, their HD edition is a witness of how gaming industry changed. Games are graphically shiny, to visually attract people and sell. Is no important that all original bugs are still there, that there is no generator thus no replayability, all you need to read and bow in front of is: HD EDITION.

Do I think is bad? No. Is simply not worth my effort to understand why and how they did it. Is irrelevant. Graphics were not a problem for me.

Our HD edition by Baratorch is 1000 times better, it offers endless interface tweaks, bugs correction, 25+ selectable generators, crash log and support. And for the price of 0 euros. Free. Many people think that because mods are free they offer less quality and professionalism than official ones. Well, they are wrong.

Now what I don't understand is why people who bought it still whine about. Like you didn't know what's inside (or to say better what is NOT?).

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1004
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Bandobras Took » Feb 2 2015, 16:39

Salamandre wrote:Personally I think original graphics were piece of art,


their HD edition is a witness of how gaming industry changed. Games are graphically shiny, to visually attract people and sell.


:lolu:

Is no important that all original bugs are still there, that there is no generator thus no replayability, all you need to read and bow in front of is: HD EDITION.


So, wait . . . your problem is that RoE hasn't changed? If they want to release the same game that 3do released in 1999, doesn't that mean the gaming industry hasn't changed?
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
Salamandre
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1032
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: France
Contact:

Postby Salamandre » Feb 3 2015, 0:06

So what, you don't agree that original graphics were piece of art or maybe my word "shiny" wasn't the best? I mean glossy, artificial. Like changing mona lisa in Barbie (there is such caricature somewhere on the net).

I find the new towns look awful, cartonish. The buildings in the background have exactly the same solidity and forced design as those in first plan. And I would agree with you that Ubisoft does what it can but no, they don't. We have excellent programmers in the fan base which could do much better work (VCMI is now close to provide the WHOLE game with new source code), yet Ubi didn't contact them. Forums exist since 15 years, yet they didn't check where the game is now, what people is asking, what they would enjoy.

They just started a project out of their ass, because probably was the easiest to do and also because most people do not have a trained eye and fall for such re-texturing.

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1004
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Bandobras Took » Feb 4 2015, 1:55

The point is simply that whether you happened to like the art then or not, Heroes III focused on graphics in order to sell. As did Heroes II. And IV. I didn't play Heroes I at the time it was released, so I can't comment on that one.

Feel free to complain about the art of a given game, but this idea that somehow the games of 1999 were aesthetically pure creations that focused on art for art's sake is ridiculous, to say the least.

As a side note, have these excellent programmers in the community expressed a desire to work for Ubisoft? How much will they charge Ubisoft for their work? How are they with artificially mandated deadlines?

At a guess, Ubisoft didn't check where the game is now (assuming we're still talking about Heroes 3) because:

1) their goal wasn't to release WoG. It's possible that they're exactly like me and don't care for WoG. At all. It's also possible they're comparing sales figures for RoE with sales figures for WoG, which I'm sure have been published in all the relevant places.

2) it's possible that they've at least listened to forum discussion about how completely overpowered the Conflux is. As I've said elsewhere, I'm not missing it at all. Ditto combo artifacts and moat damage.

Which brings me to something I've said from time to time in various game forums: when somebody says "listen to the fans," or "what people are asking, what they would enjoy," what they usually mean, whether they're aware of it or not, is "Listen to me. Do what I want." Your views and opinions are in no way representative of mine. Am I not part of this community? Is my opinion less valid? If I am enjoying this H3 HD release, am I somehow defective? Or is it possible that the target group for this release was those who bought and enjoyed RoE for itself, rather than that portion that disliked it enough to mod it into something else?
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
jeff
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3713
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby jeff » Feb 4 2015, 2:56

@Bandobras Took and Salamandre; Ok guys you both make good points and let’s agree you are on anti-parallel tracks and are unlikely to come to an agreement.

On a side note; my guess is UBI did not include WOG for the same reason they would not include Equilibris if they redo H-IV. While they own the primary software, they do not control the copyrights on the mods, and do not want the legal/financial complications. I suspect that is true even if the modders signed over the rights to them. I doubt they excluded the conflux because some fans didn’t like them. I did by the way. It is more likely they will add them later or for some reason they just never had any plans to do the expansions.
Mala Ipsa Nova :bugsquash:

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3329
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Feb 4 2015, 9:37

No, they didn't do the expansions because they don't have the source code for them any more! Neither do they have the source 3D meshes for the units, looks like, or else they wouldn't have had to redraw everything by hand.

User avatar
Salamandre
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1032
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: France
Contact:

Postby Salamandre » Feb 4 2015, 17:20

Bandobras, in my opinion it makes no much sense to cry high and loud that you don't care at all about wog (99% of game bugs fixed, 120 extra mods, selectable through menu) but defend the HD edition which is a very amateurish release. I mean, even those few extra resolutions, HD mod by Baratorch (0$) offers 15 of them + interface tweaking + bugs fixing, so HD edition looks like pale and poor copy in comparison. Then Horn of Abyss expansions proves that it is possible to add high quality extra content to a game (despite lack of source code!), combined with bugs fixing as well. I hope you are aware of the HD mod and Horn of Abyss, it wouldn't be polite from my side to call you a clueless representative fan...

Now, I am just trying to show you, in a polite way, that you just got scammed. I won't enter in this worthless fight about who is right, who isn't, especially if you need to twist what I was saying, to make your arguments heavier. I can give you 100 technical arguments about why HD edition is a scam and a poor release and why H3 is the only game in history which receives an official downgrade after 15 years, while your only argument is that it doesn't crash and you like it. Is your money after all. 8.89$ on gog.com for a complete game-compatible with 120 mods + Horn of the Abyss, 15$ on Steam for 33% of the game, compatible with nothing. not much to argue about, IMHO.

btw, here an interesting analyze from Total Biscuit about HD edition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJf0OfalW9w

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1004
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Bandobras Took » Feb 4 2015, 18:37

Salamandre wrote:Bandobras, in my opinion it makes no much sense to cry high and loud that you don't care at all about wog (99% of game bugs fixed, 120 extra mods, selectable through menu) but defend the HD edition which is a very amateurish release. I mean, even those few extra resolutions, HD mod by Baratorch (0$) offers 15 of them + interface tweaking + bugs fixing, so HD edition looks like pale and poor copy in comparison. I hope you are aware of the HD mod, it wouldn't be polite from my side to call you a clueless representative fan...


Yes, I am aware, and it wouldn't be polite. One of the things you'll note about the HD mod is that it isn't compatible with RoE.

I'm not the one who brought up WoG. Your exact statement was:

Forums exist since 15 years, yet they didn't check where the game is now, what people is asking, what they would enjoy.


"Clueless" might more accurately be applied to a point of view that fails to consider that they might well have checked where the game is now and decided that the changes from the original game outweigh the bug fixes.

Now, I am just trying to show you, in a polite way, that you just got scammed (. . .) while your only argument is that it doesn't crash and you like it.


I got what I wanted, therefore I was scammed? That's an interesting definition, to say the least.

I defend the HD edition because it is what it says on the tin: RoE with support for higher resolutions and sharpened graphics.

@Jeff: Yes, Salamandre and I will probably not agree. I'll bow out now.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
Salamandre
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1032
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: France
Contact:

Postby Salamandre » Feb 5 2015, 2:20

RoE is the first unpolished, rough version of Heroes 3. What would be the point of HD mod being compatible with something we can't buy anymore, nowhere, and which no one plays? The HD mod main goal is to enhance the map generator used in multiplayer games, which is lacking from RoE.

I don't think I failed to see that they might have considered that changes to the original game outweigh the bug fixes. Simply because all alternatives are optional, you can have major bug fixes in Era/WoG/HD mod without changing one pixel from original, not speaking about modified mechanics, there are none at base. I think you are not very well informed about actual game progress, which was my main argument.

Also, I think this is already enough discussed on steam forums, people considering they were scammed because the info about "only ROE" is far from being explicit. First, is not present on the box of the product, but you have to scroll outside the visible area, then will find a small note: based on restoration of erathia. While the correct would be: restoration of erathia, to avoid misunderstandings. This is business strategy so I won't go farther, nor condemn, but we already spotted them cheating when they released compared screens from both game, using for original map adventure sprites and for HD edition the battle ones. Which is like taking a photo of Paris near Eiffel tower then comparing with the one you did from inside the plane, at 20 Km altitude.


Return to “Heroes I-IV”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests