HOMM3: Summon Fire Elemental (x infinite!) is overpowered

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InfernalBrute
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HOMM3: Summon Fire Elemental (x infinite!) is overpowered

Postby InfernalBrute » May 15 2010, 18:09

hello all,

I became hooked to the Heroes of Might and Magic series as soon as I played HOMM2. After rediscovering HOMM3 and the excellent In the Wake of Gods mod, I enjoy HOMM3 a lot more than newer games.

I play only against the computer, in a massive extra large map, with 8 players, underdark and impossible difficulty.

I still have a lot of fun despite getting killed by the PC, but one thing that I find particularly frustrating is the INFINITE summon elemental X spell.

My army outnumbers the army of the enemy hero, but the enemy hero has MUCH better stats. When I thought I was winning, he summons infinite stacks of 112 Fire Elementals, and there is no way for me to win.

Would it be possible to outright ban that cheesy spell, or at least limit it to one stack at a time? Thanks for any info.

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Postby GreatEmerald » May 15 2010, 19:02

You can always use it yourself...

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Pol
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Postby Pol » May 15 2010, 19:31

You certainly can ban spell(In map properties or in WoG properties or via wog command). And as for infinitive in WoG section, I don't know, you have any picture? It never happened to me to see hero summoning more stacks at once.
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Postby InfernalBrute » May 15 2010, 19:58

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I tried to edit map properties by selecting each town and banning Summon Elementals and it seems to work so far, thanks.

I also banned Castle Gate and all the dimension door and teleportation spells.

I am playing with the newest version of Wake of Gods btw.

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Postby Pol » May 15 2010, 20:06

In one round he summoned three stacks at once?
That could be one of scripts or combination of them, you know WoG sometimes add extra buffs to be more challenging. :D

Perhaps waiting for some WoG mage will lit on a more in depth explanation. ;)

This cannot happen in Pure H3C, so I moved topic appropriately.
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Postby GreatEmerald » May 15 2010, 20:55

No, I'm pretty sure he meant that he summons a stack of 100 elementals each turn, and that's too much for him to handle.

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Postby Corelanis » May 16 2010, 2:43

He could just ignore the elementals couldn't he, iirc after all the real troops die the battle ends right?
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Postby Salamandre » May 16 2010, 3:53

Banning them will not help you to improve and enjoy upper difficulty. If AI plays better than you on a random map, try various solutions, as building several kamikaze heros at choke points, remove fog of war faster to spot the artefacts, build higher mage guilds, have always experts in water and air, because each elemental is weak in front of one of those schools, thus receiving double damage.

Summon is weak, what the computer uses best (in WoG mostly) is sacrifice. You spend 3/4 of the battle to kill his 7th level units, and when they are dead, he bring them again by sacrificing imps. But it can be countered, with a little luck and a good eye.

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Postby Qurqirish Dragon » May 16 2010, 13:46

Corelanis wrote:He could just ignore the elementals couldn't he, iirc after all the real troops die the battle ends right?


No. In H3, the battle does not end when only summoned creatures remain. HOWEVER, a hero with only summoned or temporarily raised creatures (such as basic resurrection) will be removed from the map, even if victorious. Thus, if you have a place to retreat or surrender to, kill the normal units and then flee (unless, of course, there is a "lose hero" loss condition.

As for the summoning itself, it likely is not infinite, just a hero with a LOT of spell points. I recall playing many standard (i.e. not WoG) maps with a similar enemy. Most basic (non-upgraded) elementals are easy to take care of as long as you have shooters+ammo cart or non-retaliation units (such as your archdevils in this the picture). Having expert slow helps. The AI will often not use any spells other than summon elemental until below the mana needed to cast it.
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obelisk v2.0
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Postby obelisk v2.0 » May 20 2010, 11:43

Personally I find the summon elemental spells to be useless in combat. The script that lets you summon them on the adventure map is definitely a source of a couple tons of problems, but in combat that thing is lame. Generally because when any opponent has reached the point where they can summon 100 elementals of any kind, all of my stacks can kill a thousand with a single blow. I'd say you just need to adjust your playing strategy...

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Postby Ojcar » May 24 2010, 0:03

obelisk v2.0 wrote:Personally I find the summon elemental spells to be useless in combat. The script that lets you summon them on the adventure map is definitely a source of a couple tons of problems, but in combat that thing is lame. Generally because when any opponent has reached the point where they can summon 100 elementals of any kind, all of my stacks can kill a thousand with a single blow. I'd say you just need to adjust your playing strategy...


Agreed.


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