Opinions about multiple saving/loading?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Metal Wolf
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Opinions about multiple saving/loading?

Postby Metal Wolf » Feb 21 2008, 9:12

What do you think about multiple saving/loading during a single session?

What I mean is, if your main army gets killed by the enemy (and say, you had a decent reinforcment at the castle, waiting for you to pick it up) would you load the game and avoid the event that got you killed, or would you start all over again?

In other words, do you think its "fair" to load the game from time to time in order to avoid the "wrong choices", and eventually to win, or not?

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Postby Elvin » Feb 21 2008, 9:18

Practically it is unfair unless you really wanted to have a good battle and don't have the time to start another game. Personally I only reload against a few suicides on creeping and mostly play multiplayer where reloads are not always offered and not more than a couple of times.
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Postby PhoenixReborn » Feb 21 2008, 15:18

In SP you can do whatever you wish. I try not to reload much but I do it in the campaigns which are tedious.

In MP I ask for reload on misclick and obviously you have to if there is a disconnect or system crash.

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Postby Kristo » Feb 21 2008, 16:02

PhoenixReborn wrote:In MP I ask for reload on misclick.

Wow, I'm glad I don't play MP against you. ;) That sort of thing would make me never want to play MP again. :-D
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Postby PhoenixReborn » Feb 21 2008, 19:23

well it is a matter of degree. It should be obvious that buying a wrong number of troops for example is not cause for a reload.

If the game stutters when I click and makes me accidentally attack black dragons on day 7 of week 1 then I think it's fair to explain and ask for a reload.

The other person can always say no.

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Re: Opinions about multiple saving/loading?

Postby Dacarnix_ » Feb 21 2008, 19:23

Metal Wolf wrote:What I mean is, if your main army gets killed by the enemy (and say, you had a decent reinforcment at the castle, waiting for you to pick it up) would you load the game and avoid the event that got you killed, or would you start all over again?

If it's a choice between starting from scratch or reloading, I'll usually reload. And I think that would be pretty common, really. Who wants to redo an hour or two of gaming that they just completed?

I know some players track luck triggers and such in battles and reload single fights to optimize factors that are intended to be random. I think that's a little much.

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Re: Opinions about multiple saving/loading?

Postby danhvo » Feb 21 2008, 20:09

Metal Wolf wrote:In other words, do you think its "fair" to load the game from time to time in order to avoid the "wrong choices", and eventually to win, or not?


I find this a really strange question. "Fair" to whom? If you're playing MP, then you need your opponent's permission. If you're playing SP, then who cares? It's not like your AI opponents will feel angry at being cheated. As long as you have fun, that's all that counts. If you'd feel a better sense of satisfaction by starting over, then go ahead. If this wasting of time will cause you only frustration, then reload. It's your game. I don't see how guilt should play into this, unless you intend to brag about your game.

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Postby tb5841 » Feb 21 2008, 23:23

If I lost a hero and loaded my game, I'd feel like I'd cheated, so I don't do it. But I probably wouldn't start the same level again straightaway either, as that feels like a waste of time. I'd just play a different level, or a different game for a while.

Think this is why I find the campaigns so dull... I want a level that is challenging enough for winning to feel like an accomplishment, but I still give up as soon as I lose.

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Postby Metal Wolf » Feb 22 2008, 12:31

danhvo wrote:
Metal Wolf wrote:In other words, do you think its "fair" to load the game from time to time in order to avoid the "wrong choices", and eventually to win, or not?


I find this a really strange question. "Fair" to whom? If you're playing MP, then you need your opponent's permission. If you're playing SP, then who cares? It's not like your AI opponents will feel angry at being cheated. As long as you have fun, that's all that counts. If you'd feel a better sense of satisfaction by starting over, then go ahead. If this wasting of time will cause you only frustration, then reload. It's your game. I don't see how guilt should play into this, unless you intend to brag about your game.


{I relate to SP only}

Why things should be called "fair" or "unfair" when playing against AI? (please note the double quotation marks). The thing is, if you lose, basically you have 2 options (likely to what you've said) : Either you can start all over again (which can be VERY frustrating, especially when you do it more than once), either you diminish the challenge factor by reloading to a convenient point in game-time for the player. Now, challenge is an integral part of any game whatsoever - a non challenging game would very soon get boring, and/or you won't feel any statisfaction completing it. IMO, choosing between these two is not a simple dilemma, and it can not be solved just by "doing what you derive the most fun from" (loosely as what you've said), since in either choice there is some (yet different) lessening of fun.

tb5841 said that "If I lost a hero and loaded my game, I'd feel like I'd cheated..". Cheated who? not the AI, but himself (the challenge issue mentioned above) - I agree with this point of view, and tend to act like him on nearly all cases (not reloading).

However, sometimes (especially campaigns with timed events) I feel that I was defeated by the AI because of a mischance (say, was two steps away from reinforcments). Did the AI play better that me? probably not, cause had I had 2 movement points more, I would have won. In this case, defeated hero dosent mean lessening chances to eventually win, but means to lose the level right away. Theoretically, I could have started the level all over and play exactly the same way + spare 2 movement points (or probably even without them due to a slightly different playing from the AI from game to game), and win.

To sum it up, sometimes you can play very efficiently and lose by mischance (again - happens mainly on campaigns, when you can't continue if your hero is defeated, while the AI can) , and in cases like these the dilemma of keeping with the challenge vs. avoiding frustration (which are both both effect and derived from fun) grows even stronger.

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Postby Tensho » Feb 22 2008, 15:16

Well...if i get raped,there is almost no point in loading.Because i will just get raped again :disagree:
Better to start over!
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Re: Opinions about multiple saving/loading?

Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 22 2008, 17:04

danhvo wrote:It's not like your AI opponents will feel angry at being cheated.


Man... i'd love to see a hypocritical AI in action...
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Re: Opinions about multiple saving/loading?

Postby PhoenixReborn » Feb 22 2008, 19:12

ThunderTitan wrote:
danhvo wrote:It's not like your AI opponents will feel angry at being cheated.


Man... i'd love to see a hypocritical AI in action...


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Postby danhvo » Feb 23 2008, 0:55

If reloading feels like cheating, in terms of self-satisfaction, then why would that be different with restarting, and vice versa? After all, if you restart, then you'd be making different choices based on knowledge that you shouldn't have ("I know the Red Keymaster Tent is up there, so let's head north ..."). The only difference is, in reloading, you're trying to change the outcome of a short period, maybe one battle, one day, or one week, and with restarting, you're trying to change the outcome of a longer period. If one option bothers you, I don't see why the other shouldn't either.


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