Looking for input and advice - Hero selection mod

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Looking for input and advice - Hero selection mod

Postby Dacarnix_ » Jan 9 2008, 21:48

I know that there are mods out there for adding all possible heroes as choices for H5 maps, but I'm looking to make something that will have additional hero choices without unbalancing faction hero numbers or adding in overpowering campaign heroes.

I think it's important to keep a similar number of overall heroes available as they are a limited resource players compete for just as Wood or Gold. I'd also like to keep the numbers fairly similar to the way they are now, probably only adding 2 heroes per faction. Adding 17 heroes to Haven and 3 to Academy just doesn't seem quite right.

Once I decided to make a mod adding some heroes but not all, it was easy to see that certain heroes should not make the cut for power reasons. The Raelag with Master of Initiative, for example, since he gets Intimidate and Aura of Swiftness, two already-powerful specials.

So here are my current thoughts on who to add. Feedback welcome (and advice on how best to do the mod also welcome). I'm fairly certain about the following:

Academy - Maahir (Mystic) and Zehir (Master of Elements)
With only one truly new special, Zehir was an easy choice. I chose a second Mystic over a second Twister simply because it's a more popular special.
Dungeon - Raelag (Intimidate) and Shadya (Shadow Dancer)
Dungeon has 3 new specials, but one is (imo) clearly broken. The fact that there are so many duplicates here made this choice easier than I suspected it might be.
Necropolis - Arantir (Avatar of Death) and Ornella (Vampire Princess)
The only other new special could be broken on some maps, so I went with Ornella. This choice seemed pretty easy.
Stronghold - Gotai (Warchief) and Kujin (Demon Hunter)
Two new specials - neither overpowering. Done.
Sylvan - Alaron (Elven Fury) and Tieru (Swift Striker)
I hate to skip the new special entirely, but mid- to high-level heroes with Storm of Arrows are a bit overpowering relative to other specials.

I'm less certain about these selections:

Fortress - Wulfstan (Border Guard) and Rolf (Golden Tongue)
I'm not sure about Rolf versus Tolghar, here, partially because I can't find the exact math behind Golden Tongue. If Rolf is broken, though, I'll probably sub in Hangvul. His ability is a duplicate, but it's not a bad one.
Haven - Godric (Paragon Knight) and Isabel (Dragonblessed)
Can anyone find the math behind Dragonblessed? Suzerain and Vessel of Elrath both seem a little too strong for multi-player, but I'm also not thrilled with picking another special I don't fully understand.
Inferno - Orlando (Aura of Swiftness) and Agrael (Aura of Swiftness)
Ugh. I'm not thrilled with the choices here, but I don't want duplicate hero portraits, so I feel kind of stuck. Perhaps Biara could fit instead of Agrael, though. A second Gate Keeper might be better than a second Aura of Swiftness.

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Postby magnomagus » Jan 10 2008, 0:05

I've currently been working on a very large heroes mod, so I would like to participate in this discussion. I agree with you on some things, namely that when you add new heroes they should have balanced specializations. I also like all heroes to have a unique specialization and not just a clone of an existing specialization.
I don't think it is really important how much heroes there are available for every faction, because no matter the amount, every player can pick one at the start and a second from the tavern and a third (from the same faction) at the beginning of the next week. There is only a slightly higher (~5%) chance that the second hero in the tavern (in the first week) is from the same faction when that faction has more heroes. But why would you want to buy a second hero from the tavern (in the first week!) when it costs 3000 gold and has only one peasant in his army? And even if you want that: Why is it necessary to be from the same faction, when it has no troops and it is only used for scouting/picking up resources? That's just the way I think about it.
My personal opinion is that all campaign hero specializations are much too overpowered expect for suzerain, paragon knight and demon hunter, it would be an enormous post to give an explanation for all of them so
I'm not going to do that (it is also not very important because most of them are still enjoyable in singleplayer and balance discussions are an unending story anyway).

Instead I can give you some ideas on other possibilities you have:
-Some campaign hero specializations can be nerfed, for example in my mod I decreased the effect of intimidate to 0,5
-Another possibility you have is using specializations from other factions, for example you can create a knight with swift striker or a necromancer with poison master. If you want to see examples about how this can be done you can take a look at my mod:


Feel free to give your opinion about it, and good luck with your mod!

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Postby Dacarnix_ » Jan 11 2008, 6:13

Ah, very interesting. I didn't know that it was practical to move special abilities around from hero to hero or to tweak them in power level.

As far as keeping the numbers equal, though, I still think that this will come into play on certain large maps. I've seen factions run out of heroes, and it definitely has an impact on how the game plays out from that point.

I think moving a few specials around could be exactly what I'm looking for, though. Thank you.

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