Bots in Games

Because we play other games too.

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What do you think companies should do about bots?

I don't care.
2
13%
Companies should go after bot producers and users.
9
60%
Companies should do nothing about bots.
1
7%
Companies should go after bot users but not bot producers.
2
13%
Other (explain.)
1
7%
 
Total votes: 15

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Grumpy Old Wizard
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Bots in Games

Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Oct 1 2008, 19:11

Hopefully this will help clean up the bots in games and help level the playing field for gamers who don't cheat. I'm opposed to all bot use and think companies should go after bot producers like blizzard did.


http://www.diii.net/n/697021/blizzard-w ... ot-creator

Blizzard have been awarded US$6million in damages from MDY for the creation and distribution of the bot, Glider. Glider controls a character to kill, loot and consequently level in World of Warcraft without the player's control. It costs $25 and is thought to have sold 100,000 copies. Blizzards claim for double or triple those damages was thrown out and it's yet to be seen if they will appeal that decision. The issue of whether MDY broke US Digital Millennium Copyright and whether MDY founder Mr Donnelly is to pay the damages from his own pocket will begin resolution in Jan 2009.

The use of Glider is against Blizzard's ToS and EULA and WoW accounts found to be using it are banned.
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Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Asheera
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Postby Asheera » Oct 1 2008, 19:14

Bots are horrible, I agree
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Postby Ethric » Oct 1 2008, 19:17

Go after producers and users. But careful about going after users; they should be damned sure before they take banning action.
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Gaidal Cain
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Postby Gaidal Cain » Oct 1 2008, 20:35

Both, but lighthandedly on the users. Deactivating accounts seems fair.
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Postby Kristo » Oct 1 2008, 21:26

100,000 people bought a program to play a game for them?? Weird. So was the point to have the bot play for you while you were sleeping?
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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Oct 1 2008, 21:50

Yeah, some people want the bots to level up their characters or find items for them. Others actually sell items and game gold to people and run services to level up characters for others (for a price.) Same thing happens in Diablo and in other online games.
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."

Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Postby blacktrance » Oct 1 2008, 22:33

Wait, what's wrong with bots? If someone is obsessed enough to use them, let them.
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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Oct 2 2008, 0:25

Doesn't that give them an unfair advantage over other players? Particularly on games that have rankings, such as ladders. Or in games that involve PvP. The player who uses a bot will have superior gear in relation to the player who does not cheat. He will also level faster and be at a higer position on the ladder.
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."

Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Postby Kristo » Oct 2 2008, 3:02

I guess the real questions are: a) does the bot cheat? and b) is there a "twitch" factor? If the bot cheats, then yeah it should be outlawed immediately. A computer-controlled agent has instant reflexes, so if that gives it an unfair advantage it also should be outlawed. Beyond that, I don't see a problem. How lame do you have to be to enlist a bot's help in order to increase your "status" in some game?
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Postby darknessfood » Oct 2 2008, 8:29

blacktrance wrote:Wait, what's wrong with bots? If someone is obsessed enough to use them, let them.


Really disagree with you. Bots are the same as cheats. Cheats in online games is lame and unfair. If it were to me, I'd kick them out of the server, BAN THA HAX!
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Postby Gaidal Cain » Oct 2 2008, 15:18

Thinking about Kristo's post, I'm not sure exactly how they are cheating unless it has something to do with better reflexes. For all I know, they just make things go faster for their user. It's almost the same as the people who spend 16h/day in front of the screen.
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Postby Angelspit » Oct 2 2008, 15:25

Kristo wrote:So was the point to have the bot play for you while you were sleeping?

So that you get a high level character without having to spend countless hours leveling up. Proof that MMOs can be really boring at times.
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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Oct 2 2008, 15:33

It is not the same as someone who invests the time actually playing the game IMHO. Also, bots do tend to have faster reflexes. For example, there is a "pick it" program in Diablo that people use with their bots. Not only do their bots play 24/7 they can scoop up all the goodies before a human player can.

Cheating is cheating. It does not matter if you cheat in a single player game because your cheats only affect you. (I personally don't becuase it destroys the game for me.) But if you cheat in a multiplayer game, it is not fair to everyone else because it gives you an unfair advantage over the other players IMHO.
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."

Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Postby Salamandre » Oct 2 2008, 15:35

When I was 16 I was playing Diablo II. It took me hours and hours to kill Mephisto 1500 times to get that valuable Shako. Lost social life and was becoming crazy about. Then I discovered the bot. He was running all the night for me, sometimes it killed my valuable characters but, overall, I was happy with. He was doing repetitive tasks.


When a game asks doing the same task thousand of times to be able to trade/fight, then I think the game has a problem. Do I have to show them they were inventive, their strategy is the best and play like mad hours and hours for nothing? I feelt no. However they banned me and erased all my stuff, and then Blizzard lost me for ever.

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Postby Ethric » Oct 2 2008, 18:13

blacktrance wrote:Wait, what's wrong with bots? If someone is obsessed enough to use them, let them.


It belittles the achievements of real players in the game world; bots and their users haven't "earned" their gain. Not to mention that these bots are often connected to people selling in-game currency for real-world money, something which is frowned upon by both game companies and players, though probably for different reasons.

In EVE, there are many stories of people shooting down the ships of bots, but getting bored when the area has hundreds of wrecks and they still just keep coming. Bots in this particular example were doing courier missions in hauler ships. Enterprising chaps in areas with lots of bots and people shooting them started selling haulers from the station many of the bots were coming from :D
Who the hell locks these things?

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Postby Panda Tar » Oct 2 2008, 21:47

For bots and users - some of the reasons stated above.
* Unfair playing, since there are those who spend time (and some money) playing it in a rightful way and are willingly to have some fun before a son-of-a-***** appears out of the blue with a bought turbo account to mess everything up;
* Promotes piracy, since they see that as an easy-income job;
* It's not an original app, which might happen to overload some systems making them lagg and other small bugs, also in prejudice of the fair players;
* It's beyond the real meaning of the game: to play.

Saying that whomever wants to use it, it's their problem is ok. But if would be ok if it wouldn't really break the rights of those who want a clean game. If someone wants to have bots as a way to gaming, then it would be perfect if they have a version for those who wants some fun and another version for bots, who wants - who wants whatever they might want to prove to whoever it could be.

Banning is a way (when they're sure enough) and for the creators...a bit of numbers in their pockets flying away always make some impact, if that's the reason they were so fond to be trying to be better at having their characters at automatic-pilot.
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Postby Salamandre » Oct 3 2008, 11:33

You might be shocked but for me everything that can screw a game benefits to the player.

Less time we spend to play those horrific things, better the life will be. There are a few games who can sometimes bring us to a higher culture level as Civilisation, Europe universalis and a few others. But the big majority just put the younger player to an addicted level and put him out from the real life challenge. Like drugs.

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Postby Asheera » Oct 3 2008, 12:19

Salamandre wrote:You might be shocked but for me everything that can screw a game benefits to the player.

Less time we spend to play those horrific things, better the life will be.
They why play it in the first place? :|
No matter how powerful one becomes, there is always someone stronger. That's why I'm in a constant pursuit of power, so I can be prepared when an enemy tries to take advantage of me.

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Postby blacktrance » Oct 3 2008, 12:39

If any part of the game is as repetitive as to cause a member to start using a bot, it is the game that fails, not the player.
No Observatory - no Blacktrance.



"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose - because it contains all the others - the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money'." - Ayn Rand

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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Oct 3 2008, 13:19

blacktrance wrote:If any part of the game is as repetitive as to cause a member to start using a bot, it is the game that fails, not the player.


No, there are different types of games. Diablo is a game designed to cause the player to make the player spend time building up his character skillwise and itemwise. However, you definately don't have to have the best items to win the game. I've beat the game many times in Helll mode with untwinked characters. If you don't like games where you need to spend time developing your character Diablo-like games are not for you.

Nobody "causes" a member to use a bot. People using bots are trying to gain an advantage over other players. They don't want to work for their achievements.
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."

Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."


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