Favourite faction in Disciples II - 2007

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Favourite faction in Disciples II - 2007

Empire
5
24%
Undead Hordes
11
52%
Elven Alliance
4
19%
Mountain Clans
0
No votes
Legions of the Damned
1
5%
 
Total votes: 21

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Holly
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Postby Holly » Jan 24 2012, 10:54

parcaleste wrote:I "PFFFFFFF!!!"-ed so loud here that I woke my cat.
Why you forgot to write it levels up in just 475 (!!!) XP, making that Poison Damage go up and strikes like crazy (and with their 50 initiative - it's pretty decent, no?). One of the best units for any kind of maps (well, maybe not so much for really large, but still, what's bad with ending with several Pit Fiends doing 300 POISON damage) with the Legions.


Not saying this is not true, but how can you hire Pit Fiend right off the bat with about 150-200 starting gold, having only 150 per turn? If you're extremely lucky to have all the units you want in the Capital, except Pit Fiend, and then you wait for like 8 turns to build Unholy Portal then Temple of Grief, sure, it can be viable. This is a huge time and money sink better spent on something else. One more thing to note is that this strategy is maybe good if you have warrior lord for that 15% regeneration or if you have access to heal spell or a lot of potions, since you probably wont have the money. All scenarios start with low income having to climb your way up. If I'm missing something, I will gladly listen to your tactics :)

parcaleste wrote:One thing you need to mention here - Petrify is pure Earth Magic, meaning Mind Immune units (Bosses) die like flies as well.


Even after many proof readings I missed to say that, good point. I stand corrected (added to main text).

parcaleste wrote:... and no word about Blister? +30 Poison like Fire Damage? Two words - IT'S SICK!
Not saying the other ones don't suck, but the amount of choices of big units the Legions are just amazing and this is why I love them so much - with Gargoyle and Pit Fiend/Tiamat/Overlord/Abyssal + Incubus and whatever hero and having in mind the XP split between these guys... OUCH!


I did not mention the Blister part (fixed in main text), true, but I stand by what I said. Overlord is good, but if he doesn't kill his target in one blow, he can be paralyzed or petrified making him less useful. With Abyssal Devil at least there is a 50% chance to disable one big target or melee unit of your opponents. The combo I am for is more on the safe side, sure, but it's probably my play stile :D.
Thing is, this combos would work if you have the time and exp, but most of the time you don't. That's the big downfall of skirmish maps. There's maybe couple of them where you can have all the upgrades and you need to have an exported leader. In a campaign, sure, you can mix and match lots of things since you transfer your hero and items.


parcaleste wrote:... but with HUGE downfall - at level 99 they do 254 Damage and have 635 HP. OK, let's tune it down even though they level up pretty fast (600 XP) - lvl 30 - 116 dmg and 290 HP. 8| And their cost for this? INSANE! 1000 gold to build them (add +250 for the Doomdrake as well, I think) and 700 per each Wolfie... with what they have to offer afterwards... thanks but no thanks.


Woah, woah...wait a minute. How can you reach level 99 anyway? Sure, you can see their stats through editor, but it all boils down to their usefulness in the game. Yes, they cost a lot of money to build, but seeing how the Undead are flexible, this can come sooner rather than later. You can go the cheap route for Templars->Dark Lords and Warlock -> Wratih and just storm through most of the things on the map while saving some gold (having elemental wards and weapon/death[poison also] immunities for Wraiths). Werewolves can and do come in handy, especially for your secondary heroes and cleaning the map with them. Put one in front, rest of your guys can just nuke from the back row. Most of the ai's other heroes will just die to them. One more plus is that they are the only special unit taking only a single spot, contrary to, for example, the Pit Fiend mentioned earlier. You can easily recruit a ghost or even two to stop enemy mages damaging them.

parcaleste wrote:Waiting for the other stuff you'll write, it's interesting and me fingers are scratchy :D


Thanks, hope it's a solid read :). I am by no means a great expert, but I like like this game and will write some more on the subject. Maybe I'll analyze some good tactics for each Hero type. We'll see.

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Holly
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Postby Holly » Jan 25 2012, 11:23

Did some research in game. Turns out Doppelganger cannot transform into a 2 space unit despite the leadership. So, only one space units are option. Still, there's a great tactic if you face the Empire. Attack his rod planters and heal up your army.

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Tress
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Postby Tress » Jan 31 2012, 14:08

Empire hands down.
Sure most will vote Undeads, but thats because they are strongest and they are simply strongest for sake of it. Weapon immune units, way stronger mage units, gennerally harder hitters, death school which's ward is hardest to research etc. Sure balance isn't really disciples strong suit but Hordes are just OP.

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Holly
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Postby Holly » Jan 31 2012, 17:14

Well, you can always fry the Hordes with spells since they have low hp. It's hard to beat the Undead in battle, but they are quite vulnerable to spells. Well, everyone is, but they are more than most.

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parcaleste
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Postby parcaleste » Jan 31 2012, 17:15

^ I was about to write really long post about the Pit Fiend and how you totally bashed stuff about it that praise in some other factions, just will say that you can "take" the Pit Fiend as an upgrade to some of your other units, and a great one on really cheap prize (wanna compare it with the Werewolf one?)... while investing some of the map with units you can give to your secondary hero (when you buy one).

About the Overlord - the Blister does 30 DMG in the beginning, in two or three levels with +17 DMG up per level... you figure it out. I am not bashing the Abyssal, just saying that you actually have a hard, HARD choice of which of those two to choose. Not to say the Tiamat is also in the picture.

The Doppelganger SUCK big time. One of the most useless units in the game, as their ability is to copy the "main" unit and not taking in consideration it's levels, so the thing the Doppelganger is most useful for for the most part of the (late game) is... death meat.





PS BDW I found this creatures Unit Stats Editor and did some "tweaks" to my version of the game that I think will work better, as such as giving HUGE diversity between the different heroes in different factions (as giving some of them two hits, others armor etc.) thus fixed the one thing that was perhaps most killing the game for me, now I have really hard choice between heroes and some of the creatures (like Liches vs Vampires).

My guess is it needs more work, like I want to tone down the wizard heroes max DMG from 300 to like 200 (it's too powerful, dammit!), but still it does wonders. :D

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Holly
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Postby Holly » Jan 31 2012, 17:48

Lets get one thing straight. I do not hate Legions, I just think they are the hardest faction to play effectively and most of their units are not so good compared to other factions.

How can you get Overlord to gain two levels on any map in the game? Maybe, if you blow couple of capitals by which time everything on the map is dead. You sure ain't gonna pull that off in multiplayer, maybe in a modified map where you have some leveled up heroes and/or units.

Pit Fiend is good for secondary heroes, sure, no arguing about that. But he needs, what, like 10 levels to get his poison chance to 50%? I mean, in what scenario can he gain so much levels that his poison does 300 damage? Units aren't transferable from scenario to scenario, even in a campaign.

Ask anyone who played disciples 2 in mp, no one goes for two spaced units, except for maybe a Gargoyle. You just can't pull it off.


Anyways, in a hurry now, will write more stuff later.

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Holly
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Postby Holly » Jan 31 2012, 22:00

parcaleste wrote:^ I was about to write really long post about the Pit Fiend and how you totally bashed stuff about it that praise in some other factions, just will say that you can "take" the Pit Fiend as an upgrade to some of your other units, and a great one on really cheap prize (wanna compare it with the Werewolf one?)... while investing some of the map with units you can give to your secondary hero (when you buy one).

About the Overlord - the Blister does 30 DMG in the beginning, in two or three levels with +17 DMG up per level... you figure it out. I am not bashing the Abyssal, just saying that you actually have a hard, HARD choice of which of those two to choose. Not to say the Tiamat is also in the picture.

The Doppelganger SUCK big time. One of the most useless units in the game, as their ability is to copy the "main" unit and not taking in consideration it's levels, so the thing the Doppelganger is most useful for for the most part of the (late game) is... death meat.





PS BDW I found this creatures Unit Stats Editor and did some "tweaks" to my version of the game that I think will work better, as such as giving HUGE diversity between the different heroes in different factions (as giving some of them two hits, others armor etc.) thus fixed the one thing that was perhaps most killing the game for me, now I have really hard choice between heroes and some of the creatures (like Liches vs Vampires).

My guess is it needs more work, like I want to tone down the wizard heroes max DMG from 300 to like 200 (it's too powerful, dammit!), but still it does wonders. :D




I wont comment on the editor bit since I really don't know what to make of it, except wishing you good luck.

About Doppelganger; Doppelganger sucks most of the time, that much is true. But I would say he is not useless. Especially if you play some minor scenarios, where you can compensate for something you are missing, such as a healer if your opponent is The Empire, or some other unique unit.

Again, and last time, Pit Fiend is a good unit, but one that I skip, since if I really want a two spaced unit, I'll take a Gargoyle for my main hero who is better in every way. For secondary heroes, sure, Pit Fiend is better, especially for clearing secondary parties/rod planters and the fact he levels up fast helps, for sure.
As far as Werewolf goes, I never would advise, nor did I say they are good to just carry around thinking you will own everything or that you should save your gold to get them quickly. They are great if you can give them to your rod planter or secondary hero for some easy level ups/defending.


In the end, if I spot you first and have mana, basically, you're dead, no matter what units you have. Same goes for me. That's Disciples for you, great game for singleplayer and not much else unless we have some ground rules like no rampant spellcasting etc.

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parcaleste
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Postby parcaleste » Jan 31 2012, 22:48

Never played in MP, too much nerves. Just try the Pit Fiend in the Campaigns, it's crazy with it's fast-fast level ups. And I prefer big units because of the XP you gain. With two biggies and a hero... brrr.

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Holly
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Postby Holly » Feb 1 2012, 10:44

parcaleste wrote:Never played in MP, too much nerves. Just try the Pit Fiend in the Campaigns, it's crazy with it's fast-fast level ups. And I prefer big units because of the XP you gain. With two biggies and a hero... brrr.


We should've just make clear if we are talking about campaign/skirmish or multiplayer. Maybe I'll try it in a campaign. Personally, I like the combo with Archdevil (mage hero), Gargoyle and Witch. You can clear all those giant spiders, orcs, orc kings, ogres etc. :D
Really easy to level up. Probably not a bad combo with Fiend also.
Damn, now I want to try so many things.

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parcaleste
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Postby parcaleste » Feb 1 2012, 11:40

If you add and an Incubus to the picture with the two biggies, right behind your main hero... well, sayonara map and bosses and all. :D

Also imagine the combine damage of the Fiends Poison and the Overlord's Blister (ouchie), not counting their regular damage (double and triple ouchie).

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Postby BoardGuest808888 » Feb 5 2012, 6:34

Most powerful, Undead.

Me favorite; Legion. If only because their faux latin :D

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Holly
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Postby Holly » Feb 5 2012, 10:26

Here are some scenarios that were previously on Strategy First site http://www.mediafire.com/?xx1plfci9y3ezxi

Also, I will start to write about some party compositions and hero analyzing for each faction today (yes am bored on a sunday).


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