Civ IV

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Caradoc
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Civ IV

Postby Caradoc » Apr 9 2006, 2:46

There are several features in Civilization that I would like to have in Heroes:

- Gaining new army types by progressing up a tech tree rather than just spending money

- Wonders

- Advisor screens
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Postby Vlad976 » Apr 9 2006, 3:06

Well, the Grail building was sort of like a wonder.
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Postby Angelspit » Apr 9 2006, 12:00

There are lots of features from Civ 4 that I would like to be included in Heroes (diplomacy and a "worker" skill for secondary heroes, among others), but wouldn't that turning Heroes into a Civ copycat?
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Postby theLuckyDragon » Apr 9 2006, 15:22

I don't think Heroes should copy anything from Civ, except maybe a diplomacy system. There's nothing wrong with that, Disciples had it and it was good. Other than that... :disagree:
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Apr 10 2006, 0:48

Expirience is something they could copy.Borders as well.And diplomacy is simply marvelous in civ,but it requires quite an advanced AI.FoW could be coppied,but it shouldnt be real time.As for wonders,grail is enough,although ultimate artifacts would be better.

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Postby Psychobabble » Apr 10 2006, 2:50

Yeah, borders would be an excellent addition to the game imo. Make it feel more like you're controlling a kingdom. It would have to give appropriate bonuses and be balanced, but it's basically a good idea imo.

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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Apr 10 2006, 3:28

Borders and wonders would be great. :)

Experience would also be great, but with the number of creatures in creature armies I don't think it'll ever be introduced in the HOMM series.

Age of Wonders 2:Shadowmagic has experience for creatures, but the same types of creatures don't stack-there are a set number of creatures in the stack. For example you could either have 8 unicorns, or 4 faery dragons and 4 unicorns in the stack. You control each individual creature in battle.

I don't really want to see diplomacy in HOMM.

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Postby Corribus » Apr 10 2006, 3:32

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:I don't really want to see diplomacy in HOMM.

I don't know - it'd be nice if you could make and break alliances with AI factions.
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Postby LordHoborgXVII » Apr 10 2006, 18:54

Borders seem to be one of the 'innovative' new ideas that are being used inapporpriately nowadays. They worked in Civ, because it was a game constructed largely around that mechanic. When you introduce borders to a game that worked perfectly fine without them, the result is often dissappointing, and I cite EE2 as an example. There have been discussions to add borders in Heroes, but I just think that adding large amounts of 'government' elements, such as borders, citizens, public morale, and so on, would just take away from the 'fantasy adventrue' flair of the game, and add more uneccessary clutter to it.

Now alliances and diplomacy, on the other hand, is a more plausible idea. It would be good for Heroes, being able to cooperate with the other factions more dynamically, and as it is a more universal strategy element, it won't feel as 'alien' in a HoMM game.

Besides that I'm really cautious of taking anything at all from Civ, considering that it's its own game, with it's own rules and mechanics, some of which would work well and some would not. Personally I would say the structure of Civ is rather awkward, but that's irrelevant. Basically, diplomacy is a good idea, but borders are too much.
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Postby Caradoc » Apr 12 2006, 5:22

Borders would be a good way to deal with Fog of War. Instead of cultural influence, like in Civ, your Heroes border would reflect your control over adventure sites, absence of monsters, limits of exploration, etc. When an enemy crossed your border, you would usually know it.

Also, let's not forget that many games have tech trees and Civ may not have even been the first. In a way, the skill/ability system does that for H5 heroes.

BTW: There are a couple of fantasy mods for Civ IV for those who are interested such.
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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Apr 12 2006, 11:42

Caradoc wrote:BTW: There are a couple of fantasy mods for Civ IV for those who are interested such.



Have you played any of them yet? I haven't checked in a couple of weeks but I was trying to keep an eye on the development of the Fall from Heaven mod, I think it is called. It looked like quite a lot of work was going into it.

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Postby Metathron » Apr 12 2006, 13:07

I love the look and feel of the Heroes' universe grail structures. However, a 'problem' I've frequently experienced is that by the time you've actually dug up the grail, the game is at an end stage already, and you don't really get to experience the benefits of the grail. :mad:

Also, wouldn't it be interesting if each faction gave you a choice of two or three grail structures, each with relatively unique bonuses?

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Postby theLuckyDragon » Apr 12 2006, 17:56

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:Have you played any of them yet? I haven't checked in a couple of weeks but I was trying to keep an eye on the development of the Fall from Heaven mod, I think it is called. It looked like quite a lot of work was going into it.
GOW


Fall from Heaven is a MARVELLOUS mod! It's now at version 0.95g and Kael (the lead person) says version 1.0 will be out as soon as something that doesn't belong to him to decide will be out. Maybe some sort of other mod he'll want to include into FfH.

I strongly suggest that any CIV+fantasy fan should play with this mod. Even Soren Johnson, the Lead Designer and AI Programmer of CIV liked it! (he said so in a post in the FfH thread at civfanatics.com)
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Caradoc
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Postby Caradoc » Apr 13 2006, 20:59

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:
Caradoc wrote:BTW: There are a couple of fantasy mods for Civ IV for those who are interested such.



Have you played any of them yet? I haven't checked in a couple of weeks but I was trying to keep an eye on the development of the Fall from Heaven mod, I think it is called. It looked like quite a lot of work was going into it.

GOW


Yes, Fall from Heaven is shaping up nicely. I have started a few games, but have not yet played through to the end.

Song of the Moon is a pretty radical departure from the base game and is absolutely beautiful.

The Warhammer mod is just now coming together -- I have not tried it.

And the Harry Potter mod pretty much sucks (surprise, surprise).
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Postby theLuckyDragon » Apr 13 2006, 21:25

Just in case anyone is wondering, Fall from Heaven 1.0 has been released, now that the 1.61 patch for CIV is available for download.
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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Apr 14 2006, 11:23

Great! I'll have to update Civ and download it.

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Caradoc
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Postby Caradoc » Apr 15 2006, 18:22

Beware. The new patch breaks most of the mods. I'll wait.
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Postby theLuckyDragon » Apr 15 2006, 18:27

I guess the modders will update their mods sometime in the near future. Anyhow, I don't play with many mods: only Fall from Heaven and occasionaly SevoMod or The Anciet Mediteranean.

On another note: did you notice Civilization IV's abbreviation? It's CIV. I was a bit surprised when I first saw it, then I got it! :)
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Postby Dragon Angel » Apr 17 2006, 9:02

Heh... yep, the abbreviation is nice, isn't it :D . I saw it from before the game was out... tough it should be spelled cIV... so it's not confused with the common "civ" that is used for the entire series, :P

(In fact, I was puzzled they didn't use this for the game title), I was expecting something in the lines of cIVilization (that is, the number - IV -, being shown just under the iv letters of Civilization...)

Anyhow... on topic, just wanted to add my 2 cents... I agree with those who say few of the civ characteristics can be added to heroes, as gameplay mechanics are quite different (civ starts with nearly-blank maps, heroes with carefully-made ones, just to say an example). Perhaps - as it is been comented - only diplomacy and a system of Borders+FogOfWar could be an interesting addition. On the other hand, I won't mind a "Nations of Might and Magic" game that combined some of the best features of heroes and Civ...

¿Anyone interested in working on a Civilization of M&M mod? :P -- just kidding, not much time for it at the moment (working 9:00-19:00), but I'd try to help if something like this happens

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Caradoc
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Postby Caradoc » Apr 18 2006, 6:36

theLuckyDragon wrote:I guess the modders will update their mods sometime in the near future. Anyhow, I don't play with many mods: only Fall from Heaven and occasionaly SevoMod or The Anciet Mediteranean.

On another note: did you notice Civilization IV's abbreviation? It's CIV. I was a bit surprised when I first saw it, then I got it! :)


If you highlight different letters in CIVILIZATION, you can get CI, CII, CIII, CIV, CV, CVI, CVII, and CVIII.
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