Combat in Dark Messiah

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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JonahFalcon
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Combat in Dark Messiah

Postby JonahFalcon » Jan 16 2006, 15:50

There will be plenty of melee combat to be had in Dark Messiah, but check out one screenshot in the Jan 2006 issue of CGM.

Image

Dual daggers? 8|

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Postby Echo_ » Jan 16 2006, 18:05

Probably just for show. I never really liked two daggers over one big long sword. But it looks as if, for combat, they are mixin together might and magic and an fps style. Should be interesting.
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Postby JonahFalcon » Jan 16 2006, 18:47

Why? Akimbo weaponry has been in FPS's for the past 2 years. And if a sword isn't available...

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jan 16 2006, 20:15

Having two daggers has its advantages.One could be used for parrying while the other could deal the lethal blow.So it is nice to have two weapons at the same time,if you know how to properly use them.

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Postby Gaidal Cain » Jan 16 2006, 20:27

Or one could use a shield :devil:
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jan 16 2006, 20:47

Sure,but shields tend to be bulky and reduce your speed,so using a shield with a dagger isnt that good after all.Its more of a preference and what youre talented for than whats better for most.A master of dual daggers can kill a novice even ih he wears full plate,has tower shield and wields a katana.

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Postby JonahFalcon » Jan 16 2006, 20:50

It's encouraging that it seems combat in Dark Messiah will be very open-ended. Magic, ranged, melee, stealth? Up to you.

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Gaidal Cain
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Postby Gaidal Cain » Jan 16 2006, 20:55

DaemianLucifer wrote:Sure,but shields tend to be bulky and reduce your speed,so using a shield with a dagger isnt that good after all.Its more of a preference and what youre talented for than whats better for most.A master of dual daggers can kill a novice even ih he wears full plate,has tower shield and wields a katana.


You know this from personal experience?

I wouldn't use one dagger for any serious parrying- one would harldy be able to resist a decent strike from anything long a heavy enough (and Orcs and their ilk love long and heavy weapons). It's fine and dandy for some fenscing, but once someone brings something heavier, it's no good. The speed one gets from not being bogged down with a shield is another matter, but using a dagger for parrying seems desperate.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jan 16 2006, 21:05

Gaidal Cain wrote:You know this from personal experience?


Yes I do.I know of a case when a martial arts master beat the s*** out of 5 thugs with knives.

Or,if you want a comparison from my field of expertiese:I can solve a math problem with just pen and papper much faster then someone who knows nothing about math using computer with internet acces.

Gaidal Cain wrote:I wouldn't use one dagger for any serious parrying- one would harldy be able to resist a decent strike from anything long a heavy enough (and Orcs and their ilk love long and heavy weapons). It's fine and dandy for some fenscing, but once someone brings something heavier, it's no good. The speed one gets from not being bogged down with a shield is another matter, but using a dagger for parrying seems desperate.


Sure,but using daggers is more about speed and avoiding.So with two of them you dont use one to parry an axe,but to increase your chances of stabing while doging.However,against a short sword or a pike or a spear,you can use one of the daggers to parry instead of avoiding a blow.

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Gaidal Cain
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Postby Gaidal Cain » Jan 16 2006, 21:26

Or,if you want a comparison from my field of expertiese:I can solve a math problem with just pen and papper much faster then someone who knows nothing about math using computer with internet acces.


Don't see what that has to do with anything?

Sure,but using daggers is more about speed and avoiding.So with two of them you dont use one to parry an axe,but to increase your chances of stabing while doging.However,against a short sword or a pike or a spear,you can use one of the daggers to parry instead of avoiding a blow.


Yes, but you said that dualwielding was good since you could parry- but, well, its advantages in that area is much lesser than you could get with other equipment. Parrying with them seems a like a last resort.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jan 16 2006, 21:34

It simply shows that experties in one field enables you to use given tools to the maximum,no matter how crummy they are.

Yes,I did say that,but thats before axes came to my mind.You surely font parry an axe or a sledge hammer with a dagger,but mosts swords and all of the piercing weapons can easilly be parried with a dagger.

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Postby Sir William S Titan » Jan 16 2006, 22:10

Dodge the slow, heavy weapons. Parry the smaller, quick weapons with daggers.

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Postby Suleman » Jan 19 2006, 8:10

I was at a con where the swordmanship teacher Guy Windsor was making a presentation. Want to know what he told us?

In a fight with weapons, one thing matters: Who is the first to make a succesful attack. Making a succesful attack is much easier when stabbing, since a straight line is much shorter than a half-circle. There was one an entire fencing school based on incredibly complex geometry. So fencing and other fighting with weapons is about how fast you can attack and counter the opponent. Even polearms had a spike in the other end that could be swung to meet an opponent that got past your superior range and inside your personal space.

Anyhow, a few things: By that logic, rapiers, short swords, daggers and such are the most lethal weapons. Stab, end of story, bye bye. You don't block with them, like in the picture. You parry and you stab at the same time. Bring your blade from the side, knock their weapon a little to the other side and stab them in the eye. If you get to stab even once, you have probably won.

They have three advantages: Accuracy, range and lightness.
The stabbing point is much easier to guide to the target than, say, an axeblade. It can be used from afar with a defencive stance yet also much closer than a weapon that requires swinging. Their lightness makes them faster and less encumbering, allowing fast attacks and defencing without reducing effectiveness. If, however, the weapon is not sturdy enough to parry the opponent's weapon or long enough to make the action sensible to even try, like a knife against a spear, you are in trouble. One of the most efficient weapons ever is actually the roman gladius. Very sturdy, yet at the same time short and fast. Against heavily armored opponents, however, a narrower or heavier blade is needed to reach the gaps in the armor or puncture it.

I got a bit carried away, there. Anyway, daggers are useful and if you're good at it, dual daggers are good as well. If you can use your weapon better than the opponent can handle his, you have the advantage. And I'm rambling again.
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Postby Corribus » Jan 19 2006, 15:05

Suleman wrote:In a fight with weapons, one thing matters:


Yes, the only thing that matters is to avoid having sharp metal objects piercing through your body. :D
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jan 19 2006, 17:46

Corribus wrote:
Suleman wrote:In a fight with weapons, one thing matters:


Yes, the only thing that matters is to avoid having sharp metal objects piercing through your body. :D


And to avoid heavy metal(or stone,or wood)objects from crushing your bones :devil:

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Postby Suleman » Jan 19 2006, 19:06

DaemianLucifer wrote:
Corribus wrote:
Suleman wrote:In a fight with weapons, one thing matters:


Yes, the only thing that matters is to avoid having sharp metal objects piercing through your body. :D


And to avoid heavy metal(or stone,or wood)objects from crushing your bones :devil:

Well, yes, but those two are just part of my point. If the opponent cannot hit you he has failed in the first point, while you have not (yet). You are likely to win.
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