Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Strobe
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Strobe » Nov 27 2019, 11:20

Dess wrote:I did the arch druid quest just fine, you get the skull by clicking on the bone pile next to the axe I believe.


I found no bone pile there. Maybe because i didn't installed the merge patch?
Also, i can't give Lord Markham the letter, cause his door is closed. Is this a bug?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Nov 27 2019, 16:53

I concur with the troll lich being perhaps a little bit too much liberty. Then again, it should be fine for Unlocker play. Canonically trolls never did any magic, but it should be fair game for the regular Unlocker cast.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Nov 27 2019, 16:57

SpectralDragon wrote:Brown Dragon


I think it's both meant to be and looks more green than brown... Then again, it's a bit of a swampy green for sure. Are you tetrachromatic perhaps? You're female, so at least there's a chance you could be (guys can't be that). Then again, even a tetrachromatic probably only sees the additional colors in nature, not in images rendered on a monitor that uses very specific color coding for every pixel :P

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Macros the Black » Nov 27 2019, 17:35

Xfing wrote:I concur with the troll lich being perhaps a little bit too much liberty. Then again, it should be fine for Unlocker play. Canonically trolls never did any magic, but it should be fair game for the regular Unlocker cast.

This kind of stuff is really fun to mess around with, so yeah, I can only second that it should be in the unlocker. I mean, why not?

But as long as we're questioning things.. would a troll lich regenerate their body back? :|
Xfing wrote:
SpectralDragon wrote:Brown Dragon


I think it's both meant to be and looks more green than brown... Then again, it's a bit of a swampy green for sure.

I think it's a bronze dragon. Bronze/brown color with some green highlights. The green resembles rust. :)
Last edited by Macros the Black on Nov 27 2019, 17:56, edited 2 times in total.
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Thonkerton » Nov 27 2019, 18:00

Macros the Black wrote:But as long as we're questioning things.. would a troll lich regenerate their body back? :|

Well, regular liches have Regeneration and they don't get their old body back.

Also, seems like the user input bug still exists in some form, it was happening to me with the riddles again though restarting the game helped fix/alleviate it

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Nov 27 2019, 18:09

Strobe wrote:
Dess wrote:I did the arch druid quest just fine, you get the skull by clicking on the bone pile next to the axe I believe.


I found no bone pile there. Maybe because i didn't installed the merge patch?
Also, i can't give Lord Markham the letter, cause his door is closed. Is this a bug?

Probably. I do not keep up a list of solved bugs, so people should always play the latest version...
... if they do not, then it is their fight. :D
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Thonkerton » Nov 27 2019, 18:52

I accidentally the entire timeline, is this bad?
Image

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Nov 27 2019, 21:32

Thonkerton wrote:
Macros the Black wrote:But as long as we're questioning things.. would a troll lich regenerate their body back? :|

Well, regular liches have Regeneration and they don't get their old body back.

Also, seems like the user input bug still exists in some form, it was happening to me with the riddles again though restarting the game helped fix/alleviate it

What I think is being referred to here is the fact that Liches normally cannot GM Regeneration.
An Undead with GM Regeneration.... well, that is unholy. You would be basically Deadpool at that point. :D :D :D

Second thing added to the Bug Tracker.

Thonkerton wrote:I accidentally the entire timeline, is this bad?
Image

What? I believe you are missing a verb in that sentence. :D (at least in the first part of the bi-sentence)
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Thonkerton » Nov 27 2019, 21:35

It's an old meme. Anyway, Rodril forgot to disable Lloyd's Beacon from the final area of Breach, resulting in possibility of hilarious abuse.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Strobe » Nov 29 2019, 11:24

Templayer wrote:
Strobe wrote:
Dess wrote:I did the arch druid quest just fine, you get the skull by clicking on the bone pile next to the axe I believe.


I found no bone pile there. Maybe because i didn't installed the merge patch?
Also, i can't give Lord Markham the letter, cause his door is closed. Is this a bug?

Probably. I do not keep up a list of solved bugs, so people should always play the latest version...
... if they do not, then it is their fight. :D



Very true, no wonder it didn't worked... :-D
After i installed the patch, it instantly worked! So, Zokar's Skull is definitely not a bug. :yes:
But Lord Markham's door still closed for me. Is it, because im using invisibility, rather than killing the guards? Maybe they have a key.
Long time i didn't played the game, i forgot a lot.

Anyways, so after i patched to the newest, i found no quest bugs yet which is fantastic! But found some other things:
- Haste doesn't seem to work
- Model glitches in Tunnel to Nighon
- Some dungeons have these glitches too, its just visually odd, not causing any gameplay problem


That's all for now. Im going to finish my game until the very end. Im curious if i can find anything else.
Im enjoying the hell out of it! :D

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Nov 30 2019, 11:43

Macros the Black wrote:

I think this was intentional in the vanilla game for balancing purposes; blades is a very weak spell while rock blast is quite powerful (especially used against you).


Should not a bigger monster cast stronger spells? And what about greater Earth elementals who NEVER cast mass distortion (which is also quite powerful)? In current status, it's easier to kill greater elementals than mid-level elementals.

Archer applies only to bow users. For crossbows, the word is Arbalist. :)


In any case, crossbowMAN is wrong for a woman, MM world is not that liberal or gender-neutral yet ;)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Macros the Black » Nov 30 2019, 13:09

candida wrote:Should not a bigger monster cast stronger spells? And what about greater Earth elementals who NEVER cast mass distortion (which is also quite powerful)? In current status, it's easier to kill greater elementals than mid-level elementals.

Well, I wouldn't know about the greater earth elementals. The last time I played MM8 was quite a while ago. But even if they did cast mass distortion, the medium earth elementals could still be more dangerous until you become higher level.

But anyway, my point was that if anything, the medium earth elementals are the ones that are too strong comparatively. I'm just looking at the monster stats (which I got from some site years ago) and doing some math with them:
The average damage from Blades at M9 will be 45. Whereas the average damage of Rock Blast M5 will be 37.5.... to each character. So if you have 5 characters, that's 187.5! For comparison, the strongest dragons deal 72 average damage per attack (although I'm assuming they have a faster recovery time). Now, I don't remember the general level when I usually go to the plane of earth, but I think the greater earth elementals might deal similar damage with their mass distortion GM10 but probably only if they hit a troll or a knight at those levels.

But if we want to talk about bad balance, we should talk about the Fire Elementals. The lesser fire elementals cast fireball M9, which similarly to Rock Blast hits all five party members, for an average of 157.5 damage. Less than the rock blast, sure, but these are lesser elementals...! And the medium fire elementals cast.... haste. :| Greater fire elementals cast incinerate at M10 but that only deals 95 damage on average.

So yeah, monsters casting aoe spells and always hitting all five characters with them is kind of overpowered. I think the devs realized that and made the rock blast less strong - I wouldn't be surprised if they tested it with them having Rock Blast M9 and were constantly dying on the plane of earth.



But I'm not complaining. I like a challenge. :D The plane of earth is my favorite dungeon in Might and Magic 8 because it's only one that actually feels dangerous. I'm just saying, I suspect the devs made them cast it at a lower level for balancing reasons.
Last edited by Macros the Black on Nov 30 2019, 13:27, edited 6 times in total.
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Thonkerton » Nov 30 2019, 14:32

Macros the Black wrote:But if we want to talk about bad balance, we should talk about the Fire Elementals. The lesser fire elementals cast fireball M9, which similarly to Rock Blast hits all five party members, for an average of 157.5 damage. Less than the rock blast, sure, but these are lesser elementals...! And the medium fire elementals cast.... haste. :| Greater fire elementals cast incinerate at M10 but that only deals 95 damage on average.

So yeah, monsters casting aoe spells and always hitting all five characters with them is kind of overpowered. I think the devs realized that and made the rock blast less strong - I wouldn't be surprised if they tested it with them having Rock Blast M9 and were constantly dying on the plane of earth.

I was under the impression that the reason Earth Elementals are so dangerous compared to other planes is that their spells do Physical damage instead of Earth damage. Do correct me if I'm wrong on this or just thinking something else entirely, from my own experience stuff like Plane of Fire is a warm breeze with adequate Day of Protection giving Fire Resistance.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Macros the Black » Nov 30 2019, 14:57

Thonkerton wrote:I was under the impression that the reason Earth Elementals are so dangerous compared to other planes is that their spells do Physical damage instead of Earth damage. Do correct me if I'm wrong on this or just thinking something else entirely, from my own experience stuff like Plane of Fire is a warm breeze with adequate Day of Protection giving Fire Resistance.

I wouldn't know about that. But my anecdotal experience does support yours; the earth plane seems harder than the fire plane. Those earth elementals can rock your world. They might be playing dirty. :D
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Thonkerton » Nov 30 2019, 19:46

Is there a list of racial benefits somewhere in the tracker? As I understand, the current main game gives Dwarf Knights GM Axe path but I don't see any log entry for such changes. Do goblins or elves also gain similar boon? Looks like Minotaurs are also able to GM Axe and Cleric Minotaur has Basic Axe.

Edit. not referring to the full unlock mod
Last edited by Thonkerton on Nov 30 2019, 20:47, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Thonkerton » Nov 30 2019, 20:47

Hm, looks like opening the Race Skills.txt with greyface text editor shows the various bonuses and only Minotaur and Dwarf have the special bonus.
Last edited by Thonkerton on Dec 1 2019, 7:42, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Dec 1 2019, 11:30

Thonkerton wrote:Is there a list of racial benefits somewhere in the tracker? As I understand, the current main game gives Dwarf Knights GM Axe path but I don't see any log entry for such changes. Do goblins or elves also gain similar boon? Looks like Minotaurs are also able to GM Axe and Cleric Minotaur has Basic Axe.

Edit. not referring to the full unlock mod

Yeah, the vanilla racial skills aren't on the Tracker. Nobody gave me the info and I am too lazy to check, since that is prone to change. :P

I do not understand why the default vanilla Merge racial skills behavior is like that, but that might just be me. (and it is why I made my own optional variant in the first place)
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Dec 1 2019, 12:39

Strobe wrote:
Templayer wrote:
Strobe wrote:
I found no bone pile there. Maybe because i didn't installed the merge patch?
Also, i can't give Lord Markham the letter, cause his door is closed. Is this a bug?

Probably. I do not keep up a list of solved bugs, so people should always play the latest version...
... if they do not, then it is their fight. :D



Very true, no wonder it didn't worked... :-D
After i installed the patch, it instantly worked! So, Zokar's Skull is definitely not a bug. :yes:
But Lord Markham's door still closed for me. Is it, because im using invisibility, rather than killing the guards? Maybe they have a key.
Long time i didn't played the game, i forgot a lot.

Anyways, so after i patched to the newest, i found no quest bugs yet which is fantastic! But found some other things:
- Haste doesn't seem to work
- Model glitches in Tunnel to Nighon
- Some dungeons have these glitches too, its just visually odd, not causing any gameplay problem


That's all for now. Im going to finish my game until the very end. Im curious if i can find anything else.
Im enjoying the hell out of it! :D

Yay, my suggestion worked. :oex:
Could you try reproducing those glitches with a new savegame (starting a new game with the updated version)? (I presume you just continued from a save with a game started with an earlier version)
Because that is the first time I am hearing about those, and we have quite a big bug tracker... :D
If it actually does occur within a new game made with the newest patch, please also provide pictures (imgur is nice for sharing those).
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Strobe » Dec 1 2019, 17:40

Templayer wrote:Yay, my suggestion worked. :oex:
Could you try reproducing those glitches with a new savegame (starting a new game with the updated version)? (I presume you just continued from a save with a game started with an earlier version)
Because that is the first time I am hearing about those, and we have quite a big bug tracker... :D
If it actually does occur within a new game made with the newest patch, please also provide pictures (imgur is nice for sharing those).


Yea, thank ya! :D
Sure, actually 2 quest which i thought are buggy are became good with my save. However, dragon egg doesn't spawn. Im planning to make a new party and start it over, and also will upload my walkthrough to yt. I'll write again, when i finish the whole game. And collecting the model glitches in screenies.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Dec 2 2019, 12:13

Strobe wrote:
Templayer wrote:Yay, my suggestion worked. :oex:
Could you try reproducing those glitches with a new savegame (starting a new game with the updated version)? (I presume you just continued from a save with a game started with an earlier version)
Because that is the first time I am hearing about those, and we have quite a big bug tracker... :D
If it actually does occur within a new game made with the newest patch, please also provide pictures (imgur is nice for sharing those).


Yea, thank ya! :D
Sure, actually 2 quest which i thought are buggy are became good with my save. However, dragon egg doesn't spawn. Im planning to make a new party and start it over, and also will upload my walkthrough to yt. I'll write again, when i finish the whole game. And collecting the model glitches in screenies.

Excellent. :applause: :tsup:
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer


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