Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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raekuul
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby raekuul » Oct 17 2019, 19:05

How much trouble would unifying the regional potion reagents be? I know that a mixture of red reagents are used for a Verdant quest but for the most part there's too much variety for too little availability.
You need to install the base mod first, and then install the latest GrayFace patch on top of that.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Thonkerton » Oct 17 2019, 20:21

It'd be nice if Repair Item, Identify Item and other similar skills would be used automagically by the best skilled person for it without explicitly having it selected. Slight quality of life improvement to avoid having to move gear around for repairs and such. The only minor balance issue I can see with this is that you'd be able to fix gear even if all inventories are full but it's hardly a gamebreaking or an exploit. In addition to the quality of life bonus, it'd also allow player to hear different voices from the characters when fixing or identifying items rather than the same character shouting how the item you found is garbage.


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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby raekuul » Oct 18 2019, 1:36

It's not as bad as Time Cube.

Though admittedly that statement is on par with saying that the leader of North Korea isn't paranoid by virtue of everybody actually being out for his blood...
You need to install the base mod first, and then install the latest GrayFace patch on top of that.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Oct 18 2019, 11:55

Jezebeth Noir wrote:
candida wrote:I fail to understand why disarming is useless.... 8|
Because all you need to disarm any trap is an enhanced ring or amulet, of course.

Stealing on the other hand is also useful if you don't want to fight tolberti or you have no money at the beginning of the game..
There's no stealing in this mod. :)

IMHO, expert magic skill is still nothing. Mages begin from the master level.


You can use amulet or ring for pretty much everything, this is not an argument. As Templayer already said, stealing is not implemented yet, it does not mean it won't come in the future. In Vanilla, I stole lots of equipment as I didn't have money at the beginning, so I deem it useful.

In the end, it depends on your playing skill and style:

As for magic, one druid is enough for everything (even in vanilla, fly, invisibility and town portal are the absolute must, heroism & bless are useful, all the rest is optional or not necessary)

Expert heal is useful, though, I currently use monk+druid+ranger+paladin+thief, so 4 out of 5 can cast heal (I only teach body magic to ranger and paladin).

90-95% of the GM magic (except Lloyd's beacon, maybe, but even that is not a must), as well as light & dark are entirely useless.

Why would I invest plenty of gold and waste valuable my skill points just to do some damage which can be done 10X better by proper weapons?

Moreover, dragons are invincible killing machines a high level party with blaster as well, so why on earth would I invest in useless, wimpy clerics and sorcerers who die even in high levels instantly?
Last edited by candida on Oct 18 2019, 11:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Oct 18 2019, 12:08

If there's stealing, there should be at least one fence location, since stolen items are hard to get rid of otherwise.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby raekuul » Oct 18 2019, 13:18

Adding Fences to Ravenshore and the Castle Stone area of Frozen Highlands would be both interesting and in-lore. Not sure how feasible that is though.
You need to install the base mod first, and then install the latest GrayFace patch on top of that.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Jezebeth Noir » Oct 18 2019, 13:40

candida wrote:You can use amulet or ring for pretty much everything, this is not an argument
It is'. A GM in dark magic, for example, with enchanted item will be more effective, while a GM in disarming won't be.

as well as light & dark are entirely useless.

dragons are invincible killing machines a high level party with blaster as well
8| Well, OK.
Last edited by Jezebeth Noir on Oct 18 2019, 13:41, edited 2 times in total.
Sorry for my english, I'm just learning. :embarrased:

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Oct 19 2019, 19:09

Xfing wrote:If there's stealing, there should be at least one fence location, since stolen items are hard to get rid of otherwise.


Why? You can always throw them into a lake or sea?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby raekuul » Oct 19 2019, 19:17

candida wrote:
Xfing wrote:If there's stealing, there should be at least one fence location, since stolen items are hard to get rid of otherwise.


Why? You can always throw them into a lake or sea?

It's faster and more convenient to sell items than it is to throw them away. Plus, if you're stealing items from shops then you probably don't have enough gold to justify just throwing them into Star Lake Teal River.

Because a fence would run a very... specialized service, it would probably be wise from a balance perspective to have them unaffected by the Merchant skill - if you're already buying/selling goods at cost then you shouldn't need a fence in the first place.
Last edited by raekuul on Oct 19 2019, 19:20, edited 1 time in total.
You need to install the base mod first, and then install the latest GrayFace patch on top of that.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Oct 20 2019, 7:13

raekuul wrote:
candida wrote:
Xfing wrote:If there's stealing, there should be at least one fence location, since stolen items are hard to get rid of otherwise.


Why? You can always throw them into a lake or sea?

It's faster and more convenient to sell items than it is to throw them away. Plus, if you're stealing items from shops then you probably don't have enough gold to justify just throwing them into Star Lake Teal River.

Because a fence would run a very... specialized service, it would probably be wise from a balance perspective to have them unaffected by the Merchant skill - if you're already buying/selling goods at cost then you shouldn't need a fence in the first place.


Well, if you don't have enough gold, you do steal (currently in vanilla only). But if you don't need them anymore, you can drop them anywhere (any chest, street, mountains, river...).

To sell stolen items, some "criminal" areas can be used like mercenary guild in tatalia, ogre fort in alvar or smuggler's cave in ravenshore etc (adding a second "head" when you want to enter there.
Last edited by candida on Oct 20 2019, 8:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Oct 20 2019, 8:25

It would be correct to replace some "guards in cities, as well as peasants (not only female or male, but mixed).

Erathia / Steadwick: It's absolute nonsense that robbers patrol the city, IMO, soldiers (female ones), archers or swordsmen must be present, or like in castle Gryphonheart, master of the swords.. no male peasants, either (Harmondale and Tatalia have both).

Alvar: no female peasants, no guards despite being a rich, important city.

I'll put it also in the suggestion tracker.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Oct 20 2019, 10:19

Thonkerton wrote:It'd be nice if Repair Item, Identify Item and other similar skills would be used automagically by the best skilled person for it without explicitly having it selected. Slight quality of life improvement to avoid having to move gear around for repairs and such. The only minor balance issue I can see with this is that you'd be able to fix gear even if all inventories are full but it's hardly a gamebreaking or an exploit. In addition to the quality of life bonus, it'd also allow player to hear different voices from the characters when fixing or identifying items rather than the same character shouting how the item you found is garbage.

"The only minor balance issue I can see with this is that you'd be able to fix gear even if all inventories are full but it's hardly a gamebreaking or an exploit." - You can already do that. I used that a lot, since my repair character and my identify items character usually have their inventories full. What I do is that I throw the items on the ground, and then right click "run" over them with those characters selected. But I agree on the quality of life thingie.

raekuul wrote:How much trouble would unifying the regional potion reagents be? I know that a mixture of red reagents are used for a Verdant quest but for the most part there's too much variety for too little availability.

There is no such thing as too much variety. Especially in MM games where there are way too few items in my opinion.
Also if the reagent looks were unified, then it would give out the wrong impression that the Merge isn't a Merge, but a MM8 mod with some MM7 and MM6 on top, if you were for example start in Enroth or Antagarich and see MM8 sprites for base reagents...

orzie wrote:Thanks. I added a little bit of info in the message above, didn't notice the reply at first. Don't know if I will have some chances to keep eye on bug trackers constantly though, much sorries. Moreover, it's damn heavy to load as a webpage.

2. Phirna Root from MM6 can be eaten (I am playing solo Knight so I can't tell if it increases mana or not). Phirna Root from MM7 cannot be used that way. Widowsweep Berries from MM6 and MM7 work in the same way: they can be eaten and give 1 food to the party.

However, MM6 Widowsweep berries are called "Widoweeps berries". Yes, I know that it was like that in MM6, but, well. :)


Another comment is related to Widowsweep berries. Their effect is too valuable compared to making potions from them (1 HP red potion in vanilla vs. 1 party food). Don't know if that's intended, but one of the effects might need to go anyway, or regulated so that I cannot get party food beyond some point, at least.

"Moreover, it's damn heavy to load as a webpage" - What I am doing is that I let it load in the background in a non-selected tab. You do not have sit and watch it slowly load, staring at the screen. (actually that might be false for some browsers and browser settings...)
Also since when is food a problem in-game? Does the food dispenser from MM6 secret dungeon still work? I'll add that to the Bug Tracker.

candida wrote:It would be correct to replace some "guards in cities, as well as peasants (not only female or male, but mixed).

Erathia / Steadwick: It's absolute nonsense that robbers patrol the city, IMO, soldiers (female ones), archers or swordsmen must be present, or like in castle Gryphonheart, master of the swords.. no male peasants, either (Harmondale and Tatalia have both).

Alvar: no female peasants, no guards despite being a rich, important city.

I'll put it also in the suggestion tracker.

Please do. :applause: :hug:
MMMerge Tracker (= Info + Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
https://goo.gl/ui24Bz
Anybody can view or suggest edits.

My youtube retro channel: www.youtube.com/Templayer

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby orzie » Oct 20 2019, 16:52

All of a sudden, a little while after I get my first class promotion and visit Training Grounds in Free Haven, my reputation drops from +8 to -54 (while I did absolutely nothing) and I cannot even seem to find a way to get it back. Not only that, but the shopkeepers started buying my stuff for 1 gold. A nice feature to have if I was a real bad guy, but hey, what is happening?

UPD. Got it now. For some reason, the reputation drops because I sell those bones to a guy in Free Haven collected from various places. Can't say I remember the feature in the original, and can't say I feel it really required, because there is practically no sense in bad reputation in MM6. The bones, according to the description, belong to human _or_ humanoid monster, so there is little logic in the feature.

"Moreover, it's damn heavy to load as a webpage" - What I am doing is that I let it load in the background in a non-selected tab. You do not have sit and watch it slowly load, staring at the screen. (actually that might be false for some browsers and browser settings...)
Also since when is food a problem in-game? Does the food dispenser from MM6 secret dungeon still work? I'll add that to the Bug Tracker.

The dispenser does work. Yet, the original game was designed in the way that the player normally doesn't reach it. In this modification, food is no longer a problem and the option to buy food from taverns is useless.
Last edited by orzie on Oct 20 2019, 17:04, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Rodril » Oct 20 2019, 17:27

Hello.
Currently i am swamped with work and daily tasks, so can not post newest update right now, i will do it a bit later - today or tommorow.
On the good side, i've finally got to last files of Czech localization and finished it. Here is link (also added to the first post), - thanks Templayer for translation of cross-continent quests related texts. Note, that most part of localization was made automaticly and it might contait errors, such as wrong topics or wrong texts, please warn me if you find any.
Thank you for keeping reporting bugs and suggestions.
Last edited by Rodril on Oct 20 2019, 17:28, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby alekssandros » Oct 21 2019, 0:44

I'm actually getting this error (NO CRASH) when I drink Divine Trasncendance and nothing happens. I'm actually level boosted with a magic well from Kriegspire Town. I guess maybe is that.

Image
Last edited by alekssandros on Oct 21 2019, 0:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Phobos » Oct 21 2019, 6:18

A cosmetic bug: When you promote a Minotaur to a Lich, the correct paper-doll appears but there is the cyan-red error sign on top of it.

About Hirelings: 1) Explorer doesn't seem to stack properly with the other hirelings that reduce boat travel times and stable travel times. Explorer is supposed to reduce all travel times one day further even if you already have a Horseman, a Navigator or a Sailor with you. 2) In general, when counting bonuses, two copies of the same hireling are supposed to be calculated just once, but two hirelings with a similar effect are meant to stack. Ex: Two Instructors should not give +30 to Learning but an Instructor and a Teacher should give +25; a Chimney Sweep and a Fool should boost luck by a total amount of 25; and two Spell Masters aren't meant to stack. 3) By the way, are the rest of the hirelings meant to be included at some point? Like Bard, Duper and Pirate? Or is the effect involving reputation hard to implement?

The AI of the Darkmoor guards (the Magi) seems to be wrong somehow. They flee at the sight of the party even though they are marked on the map as friendly.

orzie wrote:For some reason, the reputation drops because I sell those bones to a guy in Free Haven collected from various places. Can't say I remember the feature in the original, and can't say I feel it really required, because there is practically no sense in bad reputation in MM6. The bones, according to the description, belong to human _or_ humanoid monster, so there is little logic in the feature.
Selling bones did decrease reputation in the original MM6. They are strongly implied to be human bones; they are found in a cannibal temple after all! Even if they weren't human, reputation is about people's perception of the party: If people think your party is selling bones to a human bone collector, this idea will affect their reputation. Thus it's completely logical for the reputation to go down. I wouldn't call it a useful feature in any way, however. Bad reputation used to be necessary to attain Master Dark Magic, but now it can be achieved with any reputation level.
Last edited by Phobos on Oct 21 2019, 6:25, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby orzie » Oct 21 2019, 7:22

The bones can be found from various places, not only the Cannibal Temple. I recall stumbling upon some of them in some other location, possibly Temple of Baa. Other than that, the reputation feature is too implicit - usually, in MM6-8 such things were more clearly stated in object descriptions and such. Some hints, at least. It's not how it should be in every single game, of course (thinking is good for health), but MM6-8 in particular had a specific design, including object descriptions.

I may be mistaken, but this bone sprite even comes from MM8, and not MM6, where it was absolutely legit to sell them. With such great amount of "other game" graphics surrounding MM6 in the mod (sometimes unfitting to the game), it's very hard to tell anymore.
Last edited by orzie on Oct 21 2019, 7:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby raekuul » Oct 21 2019, 12:34

There was only one bone in MM8, and it was a quest item.

MM7 didn't have thigh bones at all. You had at least one skull, but that was a quest item.

The thigh bones in MM6 can be found in the Temple of Tsantsa, the Bootleg Bay overland area, and I forget where else. Regardless of the actual source of the bones, they're all human bones that that guy in Free Haven can use. Giving bones to this guy leads to a reputation penalty, but due to Merge having a much smaller range of allowed reputation scores it's much more of a penalty in Merge than in 6 (where -100 rep was a drop in the bucket)

None of the shop types accept thigh bones, you must deliver them to the appropriate housed NPC.

As for the sprites being the same - MM8 reused MM6's sprite for the Bone of Doom.
Last edited by raekuul on Oct 21 2019, 12:40, edited 6 times in total.
You need to install the base mod first, and then install the latest GrayFace patch on top of that.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby orzie » Oct 21 2019, 18:51

Got it, thanks. The reputation rating system in MM6 might be the reason I never noticed problems.


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