Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 19.04.2020]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2019, 7:25

SpectralDragon wrote:
Xfing wrote:Not sure how to feel about minos being able to wear them tho, that's a bit of a reach :p

Just a bit, he's, but hey, gotta have use for these crowns even in late/end-game if you ask me. How many people did decide to keep a crown on their character/s instead of a helm at lategame/endgame if the crown isn't an artifact or a relic? ^^;


I'd say it's all about having the option :D

Speaking of options, are you two planning to do the MM7 crowns too?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby DaveHer » Oct 7 2019, 9:01

Xfing wrote:
SpectralDragon wrote:
Xfing wrote:Not sure how to feel about minos being able to wear them tho, that's a bit of a reach :p

Just a bit, he's, but hey, gotta have use for these crowns even in late/end-game if you ask me. How many people did decide to keep a crown on their character/s instead of a helm at lategame/endgame if the crown isn't an artifact or a relic? ^^;


I'd say it's all about having the option :D

Speaking of options, are you two planning to do the MM7 crowns too?

It is an option. You can disable it in the "Character doll types.txt" by deleting the "x".
David

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2019, 9:32

DaveHer wrote:It is an option. You can disable it in the "Character doll types.txt" by deleting the "x".
David


Oh, good to know! Though what I meant to say was more of an answer to SpectralDragon's supposition that no one uses crowns if helmets are available. While that might be true, having the option in and of itself also enhances the experience. Also, don't crowns have a slightly different enchantment pool than helmets?

Minos though? Yeah, not suspending my disbelief for that one :D
Last edited by Xfing on Oct 7 2019, 9:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Oct 7 2019, 10:56

Xfing wrote:Oh, good to know! Though what I meant to say was more of an answer to SpectralDragon's supposition that no one uses crowns if helmets are available. While that might be true, having the option in and of itself also enhances the experience. Also, don't crowns have a slightly different enchantment pool than helmets?

Minos though? Yeah, not suspending my disbelief for that one :D

Well, at least I don't use crowns on ones that can have all headgear on their head, since in my experiences of playing all games, both crowns and helms had the same enchantment pool. Only difference is that crowns have an artifact and a relic, in MM6 that is (since we have at least one artifact/relic helm in MM7 together with the relic crown + relic hat and in MM8, we have an artifact helm and crown all the same. Might be outdated knowledge here) ... and since you mentioned Minotaurs there, yesh, should I make a v3 version of Crown of Final Dominion for him, seeing how they can become Liches now with the help of the Unlocker? :tongue:
I only saw one MM7 crown in there and it's Phynaxian Crown. If there are others, then I need assets of them ... and before that, we need to let DaveHer have some more time in order to get all helmets in order, only one of which can be wearable by Minotaurs if you ask me. ^^;
Butcer wrote:
justl wrote:
Figo wrote:Did You get the quest for it? As far as I remember it's connected to the one of the last quests (slay Xenofex).

its a vanilla thing, that you can go to the land of giants before you get the quest - normally you get it in the later endgame

I got the quest to kill xenofex, his cage is empty. I cant see the quest even though Archiblad already talked to me and gave me a blaster, is it because i went first to land of the giants before getting the kill xenofex quest?

That sounds like a glitchy quest lockup, yeah. Rodril should take care of it ASAP ("quest lockup" basically meaning that going out of order in quests can break them or "lock them out" of completion, like for instance the infamous Case of Soul Jars quest causing a quest lockup on Lich promotion quest because for some reason the Case of Soul Jars overwrites the individual Lich Jars if you get Case of Soul Jars quest before completing the Lich promotion quest. A big BIG problem in vanilla MM7 without GrayFace patch installed) ... or GrayFace, one of the 2.
Rodril wrote: :gong:
Last edited by SpectralDragon on Oct 7 2019, 11:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Figo » Oct 7 2019, 11:37

SpectralDragon wrote:
Butcer wrote:
justl wrote:its a vanilla thing, that you can go to the land of giants before you get the quest - normally you get it in the later endgame

I got the quest to kill xenofex, his cage is empty. I cant see the quest even though Archiblad already talked to me and gave me a blaster, is it because i went first to land of the giants before getting the kill xenofex quest?

That sounds like a glitchy quest lockup, yeah. Rodril should take care of it ASAP ("quest lockup" basically meaning that going out of order in quests can break them or "lock them out" of completion, like for instance the infamous Case of Soul Jars quest causing a quest lockup on Lich promotion quest because for some reason the Case of Soul Jars overwrites the individual Lich Jars if you get Case of Soul Jars quest before completing the Lich promotion quest. A big BIG problem in vanilla MM7 without GrayFace patch installed) ... or GrayFace, one of the 2.

On my last vanilla playthrough (GOG, GF patch 2.3.1) I didn't do this in "correct" order, and it all worked out.
I went to the Land of the Giants quite early, talked to the Archibald via telepathic message (so it was funny that Archibald talked to me from the Lab, but he was still in the Pit :D ), but I didn't go to the Colony Zod until I got the quest to kill Xenofex.
Maybe something has changed in the Merge?

SpectralDragon wrote:Well, at least I don't use crowns on ones that can have all headgear on their head, since in my experiences of playing all games, both crowns and helms had the same enchantment pool. Only difference is that crowns have an artifact and a relic, in MM6 that is (since we have at least one artifact/relic helm in MM7 together with the relic crown + relic hat and in MM8, we have an artifact helm and crown all the same. Might be outdated knowledge here) ... and since you mentioned Minotaurs there, yesh, should I make a v3 version of Crown of Final Dominion for him, seeing how they can become Liches now with the help of the Unlocker? :tongue:
I only saw one MM7 crown in there and it's Phynaxian Crown. If there are others, then I need assets of them ... and before that, we need to let DaveHer have some more time in order to get all helmets in order, only one of which can be wearable by Minotaurs if you ask me. ^^;

I was always thinking why the Devs have forbidden Minos to wear any helmet and boots (on the other side it's quite logical) and didn't give anything to compensate it.
It's a very good idea to enable crowns for Minos (at last those items won't be useless).
Last edited by Figo on Oct 7 2019, 11:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Oct 7 2019, 15:08

Figo wrote:
SpectralDragon wrote:
Butcer wrote:I got the quest to kill xenofex, his cage is empty. I cant see the quest even though Archiblad already talked to me and gave me a blaster, is it because i went first to land of the giants before getting the kill xenofex quest?

That sounds like a glitchy quest lockup, yeah. Rodril should take care of it ASAP ("quest lockup" basically meaning that going out of order in quests can break them or "lock them out" of completion, like for instance the infamous Case of Soul Jars quest causing a quest lockup on Lich promotion quest because for some reason the Case of Soul Jars overwrites the individual Lich Jars if you get Case of Soul Jars quest before completing the Lich promotion quest. A big BIG problem in vanilla MM7 without GrayFace patch installed) ... or GrayFace, one of the 2.

On my last vanilla playthrough (GOG, GF patch 2.3.1) I didn't do this in "correct" order, and it all worked out.
I went to the Land of the Giants quite early, talked to the Archibald via telepathic message (so it was funny that Archibald talked to me from the Lab, but he was still in the Pit :D ), but I didn't go to the Colony Zod until I got the quest to kill Xenofex.
Maybe something has changed in the Merge?

I was always thinking why the Devs have forbidden Minos to wear any helmet and boots (on the other side it's quite logical) and didn't give anything to compensate it.
It's a very good idea to enable crowns for Minos (at last those items won't be useless).

Given the changes we had recently, I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I've known too many cases of old bugs resurfacing like that after patches and this seems to be the case, since well, as you said, same thing with me last time I played English MM7 (vanilla + GF patch that is the same version you have). I said "English MM7" there because the most recent one I've played was the one with French localization and in that one, I got the quest lockup on Thief-Rogue promotion (the Vase didn't show up), which I understood because GrayFace always said to not install his default patch on localized MM games if we don't wish to break them. ^^; :D

Ditto ... and it won't be just crowns, they'll be able to wear hats as well. ;)
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Jezebeth Noir » Oct 7 2019, 17:00

If there's no way to change the chronicle, depending upon the start continent, maybe it make sense to completely rewrite it, drawing on the new questline?
Sorry for my english, I'm just learning. :embarrased:

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby DaveHer » Oct 7 2019, 19:52

@all
Speaking of crowns and hats, I never used them because they did not provide any armor protection just random enhancements. Where as helmets provide armor protection and random enhancements. So why wear a hat. Just to look pretty. Not in a game. But I fix that by going into the ITEMS.txt file and then I scrolled down to crowns and hats. Then I went over to the right to the two columns Mod 1 and Mod 2. Then put a number on each and you have armor protection for hat and crowns as well as random enhancements (You do not have to put a number on both). The game will add the two numbers and that’s the amount of armor protection you get. I Did this to all my MM games. Now I wear hat and crowns and get amor protection and look pretty too. :-D :D :oex: This is optional too.
David
Last edited by DaveHer on Oct 7 2019, 19:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2019, 20:38

There is also a relic crown in MM7, it's called the Phynaxian Crown.

As for minos, the shape of their heads simply doesn't allow any headgear. Even if crowns and hats could theoretically be put on top of their heads, I don't expect they would hold in place very well... Oh well, up to Rodril to determine whether it's going to be in default or not, I guess.

As for compensating for minos not being able to wear boots or headwear, that's what those bonus levels to skills would do, and quite nicely. That's also up to Rodril tho :p

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Oct 7 2019, 21:24

Rodril wrote:ping


Just hopped from Antagarich to Jadame via "high magic presence" area with level 61 characters (before colony zod, max skill point 10, unused approximately 200 points per character).

Two comments or maybe suggestions:

1- I think it would be better to cancel Lloyd s beacon between continents (or simply remove that spell entirely and replace it by something else?)
It makes Verdants quests and tips useless. There is no motivation to search for magic areas or collect dimension door scripts and it enables unlimited hopping, making the game ridiculously easy, especially in high levels. It's better to limit it or can it be bound with adverse effects (like Verdant says: mostly safe, but not always)? Like 1 per month (2nd would be a spell fail or some bad effect) might be also a good idea...

2- Bolstering is not really bolstering. Giving a lizardman 267 hit points (or making peasants tougher have not really any effect) and keeping Titan at 617 HP doesn't make a difference at all.
Is it possible to enable it for high level creatures too?
Last edited by candida on Oct 7 2019, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Kiruha » Oct 7 2019, 21:58

Looks like Sharry is bugged and stuck in my hirelings - I can't get rid of her. Maybe somene has some ideas?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Oct 7 2019, 22:01

Xfing wrote:There is also a relic crown in MM7, it's called the Phynaxian Crown.

As for minos, the shape of their heads simply doesn't allow any headgear.

I know about that one, it's the only asset I have compared to other crowns of MM7, which I have none.

Then why did both myself and DaveHer managed to make hats work on Minos visually even if they shouldn't be allowed to wear them? :devious: :devious: Heck, I managed to somehow make the only open helmet of MM6 work on him too, so yeah, even if Minotaurs are unable to wear most headgear this doesn't mean they should be unable to wear ALL headgear unless their horns would be as crazy-sized as MM7 enemy Minotaurs ... which is obviously not the case with our player character ones. :devious:
We'll see what will Rodril say in the end nonetheless.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby raekuul » Oct 7 2019, 22:56

candida wrote:2- Bolstering is not really bolstering. Giving a lizardman 267 hit points (or making peasants tougher have not really any effect) and keeping Titan at 617 HP doesn't make a difference at all.
The last time I closely looked (which was before the September 1 update, so this may have since changed) Bolster affects HP, Armor Class, Damage Range, Available Spells, and Spell Strength. That Titan is going to be hitting harder and harder to hit than in vanilla.

Furthermore, Bolster is relative to Average Party Level and Relic Equivalency (sum up the values of all your equipped items, then divide by 30,000. Add that result to your APL). If you start in Jadame and make a beeline to rescuing Cauri Blackthorn, you're in for a world of hurt. Same if you abuse multi-loot to fill yourself up with Relics.
Last edited by raekuul on Oct 7 2019, 22:57, edited 2 times in total.
You need to install the base mod first, and then install the latest GrayFace patch on top of that.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Oct 8 2019, 4:10

raekuul wrote:Furthermore, Bolster is relative to Average Party Level and Relic Equivalency (sum up the values of all your equipped items, then divide by 30,000. Add that result to your APL). If you start in Jadame and make a beeline to rescuing Cauri Blackthorn, you're in for a world of hurt. Same if you abuse multi-loot to fill yourself up with Relics.


Which is probably not the best idea, as relics usually don't make that much of a difference. Well some do, but most 30k items also nerf you in some way as well.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Oct 8 2019, 5:07

raekuul wrote:
candida wrote:2- Bolstering is not really bolstering. Giving a lizardman 267 hit points (or making peasants tougher have not really any effect) and keeping Titan at 617 HP doesn't make a difference at all.
The last time I closely looked (which was before the September 1 update, so this may have since changed) Bolster affects HP, Armor Class, Damage Range, Available Spells, and Spell Strength. That Titan is going to be hitting harder and harder to hit than in vanilla.

Furthermore, Bolster is relative to Average Party Level and Relic Equivalency (sum up the values of all your equipped items, then divide by 30,000. Add that result to your APL). If you start in Jadame and make a beeline to rescuing Cauri Blackthorn, you're in for a world of hurt. Same if you abuse multi-loot to fill yourself up with Relics.


As for relics, they have very little effect in higher levels, plus there is little difference between a two handed axe of the gods and amuck (but huge price difference).

Or once you got blaster (price:0), or some dragons in your party, nobody cares about relics or artifacts at all.
This time, I didn't take any blaster as it turns the game into FPS
Last edited by candida on Oct 8 2019, 5:13, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Oct 8 2019, 5:31

Sheesh, after the mess I found myself in again, I need to take a break too ... and this time I don´t know when will I be able to return. I hope that others like Rodril and GrayFace will be able to answer your questions as well as make this mod into something we all wish without requiring us to change options in its "innards" (.lod files) too much, since if we have to change stuff themselves, then the mod overall becomes seriously fragile to any further mod updating and thus reducing the chances of being able to be updated correctly further and further.
Rodril wrote: :gong:

GrayFace wrote: :gong:

Keep us in the Tracker in check when it comes to bug tracking, please. It´s really hard to know which bugs to remove now if neither of you is telling us all what has been fixed after the next update has dropped. We (or at least I) don´t wish to keep a Mount Everest of bugs that we don´t know if they˙re even fixed after all. :(

And with that, I say only this: farewell. Question when will I return back here myself ... and I wish all of you good luck. :tired:
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Oct 8 2019, 8:04

candida wrote:
Rodril wrote:ping


Just hopped from Antagarich to Jadame via "high magic presence" area with level 61 characters (before colony zod, max skill point 10, unused approximately 200 points per character).


1- I think it would be better to cancel Lloyd s beacon between continents (or simply remove that spell entirely and replace it by something else?)
It makes Verdants quests and tips useless. There is no motivation to search for magic areas or collect dimension door scripts and it enables unlimited hopping, making the game ridiculously easy, especially in high levels. It's better to limit it or can it be bound with adverse effects (like Verdant says: mostly safe, but not always)? Like 1 per month (2nd would be a spell fail or some bad effect) might be also a good idea...



3rd option is disabling llyodd beacon without affecting low level spells for GM level, is it possible?

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby DaveHer » Oct 8 2019, 8:54

candida wrote:
candida wrote:
Rodril wrote:ping


Just hopped from Antagarich to Jadame via "high magic presence" area with level 61 characters (before colony zod, max skill point 10, unused approximately 200 points per character).


1- I think it would be better to cancel Lloyd s beacon between continents (or simply remove that spell entirely and replace it by something else?)
It makes Verdants quests and tips useless. There is no motivation to search for magic areas or collect dimension door scripts and it enables unlimited hopping, making the game ridiculously easy, especially in high levels. It's better to limit it or can it be bound with adverse effects (like Verdant says: mostly safe, but not always)? Like 1 per month (2nd would be a spell fail or some bad effect) might be also a good idea...



3rd option is disabling llyodd beacon without affecting low level spells for GM level, is it possible?

Yes just go into the Class Skills.txt file in the tables folder. "E=expert M=master G=grandmaster" replace the G with M. You must use GrayFace Text Editor. :) This option will affect all water spells.
David
Last edited by DaveHer on Oct 8 2019, 9:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Oct 8 2019, 9:23

candida wrote:As for relics, they have very little effect in higher levels, plus there is little difference between a two handed axe of the gods and amuck (but huge price difference).


Exactly. I daresay a character with top tier non-unique gear might actually be better off, because they won't be meaningfully weaker, but monsters will be weaker for them. Now that we've pooled and tiered the items from all 3 games (so far it's implemented only for weaponry), Tier 6 items are pretty much like vanilla's artifacts in terms of damage output anyway, not to mention they can come with amazing enchantments.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Figo » Oct 8 2019, 12:09

SpectralDragon wrote:Well, at least I don't use crowns on ones that can have all headgear on their head, since in my experiences of playing all games, both crowns and helms had the same enchantment pool. Only difference is that crowns have an artifact and a relic, in MM6 that is (since we have at least one artifact/relic helm in MM7 together with the relic crown + relic hat and in MM8, we have an artifact helm and crown all the same. Might be outdated knowledge here) ...

DaveHer wrote:@all
Speaking of crowns and hats, I never used them because they did not provide any armor protection just random enhancements. Where as helmets provide armor protection and random enhancements. So why wear a hat. Just to look pretty. Not in a game. But I fix that by going into the ITEMS.txt file and then I scrolled down to crowns and hats. Then I went over to the right to the two columns Mod 1 and Mod 2. Then put a number on each and you have armor protection for hat and crowns as well as random enhancements (You do not have to put a number on both). The game will add the two numbers and that’s the amount of armor protection you get. I Did this to all my MM games. Now I wear hat and crowns and get amor protection and look pretty too. :-D :D :oex: This is optional too.
David

Maybe instead of giving crowns and hats extra AC (anyway that hat could only provide protection from rain ;) ) increase their enchantment pool. That could give players some kind of choice to wear helmet with AC and lesser enchantment or crown with better enchantment.


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