Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Sep 30 2019, 12:41

raekuul wrote:
Xfing wrote:Let me say this again: humans with +1 to all misc skills are NOT balanced. Because of this there is no reason to play the following classes with any other race than human:
Isn't this a completely optional component that the end user has to install separately?


I was under the impression it was integreated into the base game already, given what Rodril was saying last time. My bad I suppose

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Sep 30 2019, 12:42

Templayer wrote:Yeah, but this is Xfing we are talking about.


Templayer wrote:*Towards the end of sickness*
Normal people: *watch TV / Netflix and such*
Templayer: *edits 9000+ files in order for a few people to have a slighly more fun experience playing the Merge.*

:D :D :D


Tooting your own horn all the time while taking every opportunity to put put others down is not called OCD, it's called narcissism :D
Last edited by Xfing on Sep 30 2019, 12:50, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Sep 30 2019, 12:48

Templayer wrote:Also, why are you asking a person with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder such a question? :D :D

Because it doesn't seem like that when checking the Tracker. Them localized versions of voices better be on Sound Tracker and (maybe) CIQ without me needing them to put them in there because I'm swept away into real life business again and thus wasn't/ain't able to keep watch over the Tracker as nicely as I could. (endless facepalms) Gotta keep an eye on stuff and making sure they're as easy to work for others as they are to their creators aka you (voice files), me (image files) and Ancients know who else (maybe Xfing aka the one that is doing item tiering? (thinking)).
Templayer wrote:*Towards the end of sickness*
Normal people: *watch TV / Netflix and such*
Templayer: *edits 9000+ files in order for a few people to have a slighly more fun experience playing the Merge.*

:D :D :D

Don't think that 14-28 people is considered "few" anymore, more like "several". Or at !east that's what Heroes III would say. :tongue: :D :D
Xfing wrote:
Templayer wrote:*Towards the end of sickness*
Normal people: *watch TV / Netflix and such*
Templayer: *edits 9000+ files in order for a few people to have a slighly more fun experience playing the Merge.*

:D :D :D


Tooting your own horn all the time while putting others down is not called OCD, it's called narcissism :D

I think that OCD bit is referred to compulsorily ordering the voice files like they're supposed to be ordered (and honestly, I too am a bit OCD when it comes to ordering files and assets, when it comes to completed ones, that is. All so that people like you and Rodril can work nicely with them without more hassle than it's bloody needed), not ... that. :P
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Sep 30 2019, 13:47

SpectralDragon wrote:
Templayer wrote:Also, why are you asking a person with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder such a question? :D :D

Because it doesn't seem like that when checking the Tracker. Them localized versions of voices better be on Sound Tracker and (maybe) CIQ without me needing them to put them in there because I'm swept away into real life business again and thus wasn't/ain't able to keep watch over the Tracker as nicely as I could. (endless facepalms) Gotta keep an eye on stuff and making sure they're as easy to work for others as they are to their creators aka you (voice files), me (image files) and Ancients know who else (maybe Xfing aka the one that is doing item tiering? (thinking)).
Templayer wrote:*Towards the end of sickness*
Normal people: *watch TV / Netflix and such*
Templayer: *edits 9000+ files in order for a few people to have a slighly more fun experience playing the Merge.*

:D :D :D

Don't think that 14-28 people is considered "few" anymore, more like "several". Or at !east that's what Heroes III would say. :tongue: :D :D
Xfing wrote:
Templayer wrote:*Towards the end of sickness*
Normal people: *watch TV / Netflix and such*
Templayer: *edits 9000+ files in order for a few people to have a slighly more fun experience playing the Merge.*

:D :D :D


Tooting your own horn all the time while putting others down is not called OCD, it's called narcissism :D

I think that OCD bit is referred to compulsorily ordering the voice files like they're supposed to be ordered (and honestly, I too am a bit OCD when it comes to ordering files and assets, when it comes to completed ones, that is. All so that people like you and Rodril can work nicely with them without more hassle than it's bloody needed), not ... that. :P

1. They are on the tracker on both sections. Check the insides of the PACKAGE instead to find out how sorted they are. -_-
2. Well, those are specifically for people with non-English locales. I am not sure if we have 14-28 of those.
3. That wasn't putting anyone down, if I wanted to do that, I would say that Xfing lacks common sense. Also the quoted post has nothing to do with OCD and OCD has no logical connection to it whatsoever. Also OCD and narcissism are not exclusive to each other. I can be a narcissist AND have OCD. :P
Notwithstanding the fact that original intention with the "what normal people do and what I do" post was actually to put myself a bit down, since I spend DAYS toiling with something that might not even be used and if it is, will be fairly minor in importance. But for some people the simple answers are always the correct ones. And seeing me as an narcissist seems like the simple and easy thing to do.

Also I am a satanist. :devil:
(should've said that one to Reed. When I say this sometimes I get responses such as "is that even legal?" to which I respond with "We are not living in medieval times anymore, at least in Czech Republic, for now. Even though the European Empire is trying to bring that back."... and I am ranting again :D)
Last edited by Templayer on Sep 30 2019, 13:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Sep 30 2019, 14:05

Templayer wrote:1. They are on the tracker on both sections. Check the insides of the PACKAGE instead to find out how sorted they are. -_-
2. Well, those are specifically for people with non-English locales. I am not sure if we have 14-28 of those.
3. That wasn't putting anyone down, if I wanted to do that, I would say that Xfing lacks common sense. Also the quoted post has nothing to do with OCD and OCD has no logical connection to it whatsoever. Also OCD and narcissism are not exclusive to each other. I can be a narcissist AND have OCD. :P
Notwithstanding the fact that original intention with the "what normal people do and what I do" post was actually to put myself a bit down, since I spend DAYS toiling with something that might not even be used and if it is, will be fairly minor in importance. But for some people the simple answers are always the correct ones. And seeing me as an narcissist seems like the simple and easy thing to do.

Also I am a satanist. :devil:
(should've said that one to Reed. When I say this sometimes I get responses such as "is that even legal?" to which I respond with "We are not living in medieval times anymore, at least in Czech Republic, for now. Even though the European Empire is trying to bring that back."... and I am ranting again :D)

Gud! And sorry for not having the means to unpack stuff on my phone or tablet. :devious: I ain't coming to my laptop until tomorrow because real life business!
Nor am I ... instead I'm sure we have more. :tongue: Hidden ones, that is, since I doubt every person records their gameplay and uploads it on the Internet. :D :D
My thoughts exactly. Sorry, Xfing, but Templayer here has a point.
Also, welcome to my life, Templayer! :D :D :D That's what I do on a daily basis, doing stuff that might not be used in the future and if they are, then they're fairly minor in importance. Still doing these because I love my job! ^^; :D
Last edited by SpectralDragon on Sep 30 2019, 20:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Sep 30 2019, 14:36

Rodril wrote:
candida wrote:I've got a crash in Celeste when I attempted to train my party

Apply latest Merge patch: https://mega.nz/#!vuQEnIaQ!wPbMj2-pSudk ... qrnMNEM2pE , tell me if it keep happen.


I always played with the patch (immediately installed after installing the merge), never without.

Strange enough, this crash happens when I click "Learn Skills" first (the console screen pops up inside the game screen), and NOT when I directly click on "train to X level".

I tried the same in Stone City and Nighon, the result is the same.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Sep 30 2019, 14:43

candida wrote:
Rodril wrote:
candida wrote:I've got a crash in Celeste when I attempted to train my party

Apply latest Merge patch: https://mega.nz/#!vuQEnIaQ!wPbMj2-pSudk ... qrnMNEM2pE , tell me if it keep happen.


I always played with the patch (immediately installed after installing the merge), never without.

Strange enough, this crash happens when I click "Learn Skills" first (the console screen pops up inside the game screen), and NOT when I directly click on "train to X level".

I tried the same in Stone City and Nighon, the result is the same.

Yeah, but Rodril updated it. You need to update frequently as he is changing the Merge patch constantly.
I am not talking about the GrayFace patch, but to what Rodril refered to as Merge patch.

Different things. Apply NEWEST, then please report.
Last edited by Templayer on Sep 30 2019, 14:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby candida » Sep 30 2019, 15:04

Templayer wrote:
candida wrote:
Rodril wrote:Apply latest Merge patch: https://mega.nz/#!vuQEnIaQ!wPbMj2-pSudk ... qrnMNEM2pE , tell me if it keep happen.


I always played with the patch (immediately installed after installing the merge), never without.

Strange enough, this crash happens when I click "Learn Skills" first (the console screen pops up inside the game screen), and NOT when I directly click on "train to X level".

I tried the same in Stone City and Nighon, the result is the same.

Yeah, but Rodril updated it. You need to update frequently as he is changing the Merge patch constantly.
I am not talking about the GrayFace patch, but to what Rodril refered to as Merge patch.

Different things. Apply NEWEST, then please report.


Seems to be fixed, at least in the Pit and Nighon.

Applied RODRIL patch is from 27.09.2019, FYI.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby candida » Sep 30 2019, 15:29

albahr wrote:
Velihras wrote:I've got stuck in Erathia after starting in Enroth. The main story hasn't progressed and I'm not supposed to be in Harmondale yet - no butler, Castle door closed, no Markham at his manson etc.


You can travel to Emerald Island via ship from Steadwick.


Sorry for bouncing this up, but it doesn't work for me (just checked every day, the ship goes to Avlee, Tatalia, Bracada Desert and Evenmorn Islands (only Sundays). Once I left, I can never go back.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Sep 30 2019, 15:36

candida wrote:
Templayer wrote:
candida wrote:
I always played with the patch (immediately installed after installing the merge), never without.

Strange enough, this crash happens when I click "Learn Skills" first (the console screen pops up inside the game screen), and NOT when I directly click on "train to X level".

I tried the same in Stone City and Nighon, the result is the same.

Yeah, but Rodril updated it. You need to update frequently as he is changing the Merge patch constantly.
I am not talking about the GrayFace patch, but to what Rodril refered to as Merge patch.

Different things. Apply NEWEST, then please report.


Seems to be fixed, at least in the Pit and Nighon.

Applied RODRIL patch is from 27.09.2019, FYI.

Thanks!

Just to explain the difference:
GrayFace's Patch is for the normal game, and it reverse engineers the game so that we can do whatever we want with it. Like add new functionality. Even coop multiplayer could be coded through LUA, if someone was hardcore enough to do that. :D

The Merge project by Rodril then uses the GrayFace patch to combine the games, add new functionality and content, etc. (and also much more, as GF himself has stated once).

And the Merge Patch (previously also known as the Merge Update) is a patch for the Merge project.

Both GrayFace and Rodril have spent substantial effort on the {GF framework I guess? The GF patch / extension / editor? :P } and Merge project and I respect both of them deeply for what they have done. :hug:
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby raekuul » Sep 30 2019, 19:52

Xfing wrote:
raekuul wrote:
Xfing wrote:Let me say this again: humans with +1 to all misc skills are NOT balanced. Because of this there is no reason to play the following classes with any other race than human:
Isn't this a completely optional component that the end user has to install separately?


I was under the impression it was integreated into the base game already, given what Rodril was saying last time. My bad I suppose

There is a "blank" Racial Skills sheet in the base mod. All it does is grant one extra level of Axe to Minotaurs and Dwarves (which with the Axe fix in the latest Grayface makes those two races the best base races for Knights). The adjusted Racial Skills thing we're arguing about is an attempt at making a standard alternate base. Which it's still better than what was out there before, which added 4s everywhere (keeping in mind that Racial Skills are (1) added at character generation and (2) added to the class's maximum)
Last edited by raekuul on Sep 30 2019, 19:54, edited 2 times in total.
You need to install the base mod first, and then install the latest GrayFace patch on top of that.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Sep 30 2019, 20:07

raekuul wrote:
Xfing wrote:
raekuul wrote:Isn't this a completely optional component that the end user has to install separately?


I was under the impression it was integreated into the base game already, given what Rodril was saying last time. My bad I suppose

There is a "blank" Racial Skills sheet in the base mod. All it does is grant one extra level of Axe to Minotaurs and Dwarves (which with the Axe fix in the latest Grayface makes those two races the best base races for Knights). The adjusted Racial Skills thing we're arguing about is an attempt at making a standard alternate base. Which it's still better than what was out there before, which added 4s everywhere (keeping in mind that Racial Skills are (1) added at character generation and (2) added to the class's maximum)

As raekuul said, my racial skills modification is not the default one, and shouldn't be. It is meant to replace the Racial Classes with Racial Skills.
I wonder if Xfing has even played the Merge yet. :|
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Sep 30 2019, 20:40

Templayer wrote:As raekuul said, my racial skills modification is not the default one, and shouldn't be. It is meant to replace the Racial Classes with Racial Skills.
I wonder if Xfing has even played the Merge yet. :|

Is yours even needed nowadays with Rodril making it official? Just curious.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Sep 30 2019, 21:23

SpectralDragon wrote:
Templayer wrote:As raekuul said, my racial skills modification is not the default one, and shouldn't be. It is meant to replace the Racial Classes with Racial Skills.
I wonder if Xfing has even played the Merge yet. :|

Is yours even needed nowadays with Rodril making it official? Just curious.

That depends on how you want to play the game.
I would just wish to be able to tie honorary race promotion to max expertise in racial skill.
I.e. Dark Elf Knight gets the "honorary class promotion" to Patriarch -> can racially GM Dark Elf Abilities instead of Mastering.
That is not possible with the current table.

But oh well.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Oct 1 2019, 1:14

Templayer wrote:That depends on how you want to play the game.
I would just wish to be able to tie honorary race promotion to max expertise in racial skill.
I.e. Dark Elf Knight gets the "honorary class promotion" to Patriarch -> can racially GM Dark Elf Abilities instead of Mastering.
That is not possible with the current table.

But oh well.

Aka how stuff work in MM6 and all? Sounds about right to me as well.

Rodril wrote: :gong:

When it comes to new voice files for uncommon Liches and Zombies, once you start experimenting with them (if you'll even do so ^^; ), I'd personally suggest you first do these experiments with English ones, so that once all kinks and potential bugs are out of there you can easily incorporate their localized versions into your respective MMMerge localization downloads ... unless you're using a localized version of MMMerge as your "base" version, then I'd suggest working with its respectable localized voice files first either before or after completing the entire Undead subrace thing (don't wish it to be fragile like Templayer said it would be if he would copy all Zombie files for it instead of you, do you?), I'm not sure about that order. I only know they too get new Zombie files and heck, if you wish, you can first complete the Undead subrace, then assign customized Zombie voices to them specifically and after that assign the rest of the customized voices to their respectable Zombies and Liches.
Just saying. ^^; ... aside what Templayer said as well.
Templayer wrote:PS: There are like 60 "rogue" SFK files there. I forgot to delete them - those are Sony Vegas wave visualization files, pretty much 2 kB per each. I am not reuploading that whole package to my server and ulož.to again. There is some easy commandline command to delete those I think (something like delete *.sfk in folder and subfolders).

Here you go (Rodril). Also instead of manually indexing those, you could do this dynamically - (except for the Original Remasters) add _lich and _zombie to the files, and since they are otherwise called the same as their normal voices... so if a Minotaur gets turned into a Lich, he gets a voice set that has normal minotaur voice clip names + _lich at the end as a suffix. Or something like that.
Last edited by SpectralDragon on Oct 1 2019, 1:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Oct 1 2019, 9:14

SpectralDragon wrote:
Templayer wrote:That depends on how you want to play the game.
I would just wish to be able to tie honorary race promotion to max expertise in racial skill.
I.e. Dark Elf Knight gets the "honorary class promotion" to Patriarch -> can racially GM Dark Elf Abilities instead of Mastering.
That is not possible with the current table.

But oh well.

Aka how stuff work in MM6 and all? Sounds about right to me as well.

Actually, that would do the trick nicely. The teachers only teaching GM if a certain (promotion) quest is solved.

SpectralDragon wrote:(don't wish it to be fragile like Templayer said it would be if he would copy all Zombie files for it instead of you, do you?)

We weren't talking about copying FILES, but lines in a certain table that prescribes what characters there are.

So basically - there are lines telling the game about zombie characters, what paperdoll they have, what voices they have, and what race they are, among other things.
Rodril suggested that I should copy the zombie lines, and only change the race from Zombie to Undead (which I called Lich race, usually) in the copied lines, and then enable those on the character creation table.

There is one major hitch with that however. The file that prescribes what characters are (a different table from character creation!) gets modified a lot in the base Merge.
So if there is ANY modification (again - those happen a lot for this specific file by Rodril) to it, and the user then uses the unlocker and overwrites the updated file with the older version, it is going to break stuff.

The solution is simple - Rodril should make the zombie "copies" (copied LINES) himself, put it into the base Merge, and the Merge itself will not reference them in any shape or form normally, only my character creation table (i.e. the Unlocker) will, putting the copied Zombies into Character Creation.

Tried my best to explain it. :S

Rodril wrote:*I now have a lot of stuff on my hands, and you keep piling more stuff on it, you bastard!* :D :D :D
I am sorry Rodril. :S :D
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby SpectralDragon » Oct 1 2019, 10:23

Templayer wrote:
SpectralDragon wrote:Aka how stuff work in MM6 and all? Sounds about right to me as well.

Actually, that would do the trick nicely. The teachers only teaching GM if a certain (promotion) quest is solved.

SpectralDragon wrote:(don't wish it to be fragile like Templayer said it would be if he would copy all Zombie files for it instead of you, do you?)

We weren't talking about copying FILES, but lines in a certain table that prescribes what characters there are.

So basically - there are lines telling the game about zombie characters, what paperdoll they have, what voices they have, and what race they are, among other things.
Rodril suggested that I should copy the zombie lines, and only change the race from Zombie to Undead (which I called Lich race, usually) in the copied lines, and then enable those on the character creation table.

There is one major hitch with that however. The file that prescribes what characters are (a different table from character creation!) gets modified a lot in the base Merge.
So if there is ANY modification (again - those happen a lot for this specific file by Rodril) to it, and the user then uses the unlocker and overwrites the updated file with the older version, it is going to break stuff.

The solution is simple - Rodril should make the zombie "copies" (copied LINES) himself, put it into the base Merge, and the Merge itself will not reference them in any shape or form normally, only my character creation table (i.e. the Unlocker) will, putting the copied Zombies into Character Creation.

Tried my best to explain it. :S

Rodril wrote:*I now have a lot of stuff on my hands, and you keep piling more stuff on it, you bastard!* :D :D :D
I am sorry Rodril. :S :D

All of my YES! :tsup: That DEFINITELY needs to be a law in the Character table, since well, it's been like this since MM6 after all and it makes most sense as well. Sure, "honorary Nosferatu" and others sound weird, but hey, let's be honest, "honorary (promotion quest title)" makes as much sense in there as it does irl. ;)

Oh, I see and hey, no hitch there, you explained it nicely. Yep, that's definitely Rodril's job right there and yes, it might take a monthly update for it, but hey, everything to make this mod as stabile and independent as it can be, right, everyone? Don't wish to go through ditches that can be easily filled in after all (broken update version event, I'm looking at you!). :devious:

Ditto, Rodril, so sorry about it. The good thing is, after all of this is done and in place, then there will be NO MORE major overhauls like this (new voice files and this Undead subrace debacle are both great modifications, yes, but as much as I know, they're also the only great modifications to this mod as well), so once this is all done and done (as well as fixed), then there will be no more stuff like this, at least to my knowledge ... and I can be sure it won't be just me and Templayer that will be grateful for it, but many other people as well. We believe in you! :hug: :tsup:
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Templayer » Oct 1 2019, 13:26

Templayer wrote:
Rodril wrote:*Requires a Czech translation for content that wasn't in vanilla, like the Breach*

What charset should I use? I need to use Czech-only symbols (diacritics). The one we (at the job) are all using is simply unicode - UTF8. So that we do not have to go though any hassle. If you want me to save the file in some other encoding, please tell me. Otherwise you will have to convert it yourself to whatever you need.

Didn't get a response, so I am going to use UTF8 and leave all the potential converting efforts on Rodril. Because I am a bastard. :D :D
EDIT: Actually just opening it in TxtEdit as a table works (i.e. in ANSI)
Last edited by Templayer on Oct 1 2019, 13:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby Xfing » Oct 1 2019, 14:22

Templayer wrote:I wonder if Xfing has even played the Merge yet. :|


No, I pulled all those bug reports from before completely outta me a rse ;|
Last edited by Xfing on Oct 1 2019, 14:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 22.09.2019]

Postby raekuul » Oct 1 2019, 18:57

Templayer wrote:Maybe I've got an extended warranty!
Xfing wrote:Warranties are invalid if you don't use the product for its intended purpose!
Girls, girls! You're both pretty! Can I go home now?
Last edited by raekuul on Oct 1 2019, 19:04, edited 1 time in total.
You need to install the base mod first, and then install the latest GrayFace patch on top of that.


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