Might and Magic 6: Improving the Knight, Paladin, and Archer

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UndeadHalfOrc
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Might and Magic 6: Improving the Knight, Paladin, and Archer

Postby UndeadHalfOrc » Mar 11 2010, 19:09

First of I'd like to thank Grayface, Mok, and all other modders for their work and dedication to this great game.

I always really wanted the warriors of MM6 to pack more of a punch late game, and MM7-MM8 fixed that in a single stroke with the armsmaster skill, so I always bugged Grayface and others to try to incorporate it in MM6 as it would be a true fix.

However, thanks to the ease the weapons damage formula can be changed (items.txt) and read by the game without even needing to reinsert it, as Grayface told me, anyone can improve the warriors.

Since only the warriors can use swords, axes and spears, these are the weapons I concentrated on.

Anybody is interested? I'll provide a link to my items.txt soon enough. But here's what I fixed in a nutshell:

Longsword basic formula: 3d3->3d4
Broadsword basic formula: 3d4->3d5
Cutlass basic formula: 2d4 -> 5d2
2-H sword basic formula: 5d5->6d4, and the bonus of the better ones had a massive increase.
1-H Axe: 4d2->4d3, +1 to bonus of the better ones.
2-H Axe: 3d7->4d7, +2 to bonus of the better ones.
Spear: 1d9->1d11. That means 2d11 when used alone. +1 to better ones
Trident: 2d6->2d7. That means 3d7 when used alone. +1 to better ones
Halberd: 3d6->3d7. That means 4d7 when used alone.
Staff: 2d4->2d5, +2 to the bonus of the better ones.
Chain Mail: +2 AC to all
Plate Mail: +4 AC to all, and a few more AC to the better ones


These Basic formulas were affected to all artifacts & relics as well (including Snergle's Axe)

And when I said "Better ones", I mean all grades except the very basic +0 weapon.

If you're interested in getting my text file, I'll point you out to download diffmerge (it's a free utility to compare source code and text files) if you want to see all my changes with the original text file.

At the end of the day, how will this effect the game balance is:
- ALL the weapons exclusive to the warriors got better.
- Two-handed swords are now the CLEAR weapon of choice if you DON'T want to invest much points, if at all, in your weapon skills. They will always do more damage than weapon types of similar grades if you didn't invest in their skill levels.
- If you intend to invest lots of skill points in only ONE single weapon type, Two-handed axes WILL eventually become the most powerful weapon type. Spear (not trident or halberd: just a spear, alone, both hands) places close second. Dual swords will be much better at first though (Starting at skill level 7 obviously). Balance is achieved!
- If you want to mix and match weapon skills, holding a halberd/trident in your right hand and a sword in your left hand is still the most damaging combo: just not as completely dominating as it was before. A one handed axe + one handed sword is a viable alternative, as it places close second.
- For mages & druids, staves are now a slightly viable alternative to daggers thanks to their improved damage all around.

In any case, playtesting will tell me how good these changes are.
Last edited by UndeadHalfOrc on Mar 12 2010, 14:01, edited 2 times in total.

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UndeadHalfOrc
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Postby UndeadHalfOrc » Mar 11 2010, 19:21

Oh, and although changing spear formula from 1d9 to 1d11 effectively adds another 1d11 if used two handed, the text box still says "+1d9 if used two handed" although the real damage IS +1d11. (and +1d7 for tridents and halberds, not +1d6)

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vladimir-maestro
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Postby vladimir-maestro » Mar 11 2010, 19:36

not new idea but this is a weapon improvements only. classes stays the same.
i suggested add a class specification that would make classes differ from each other without weapon improvements - so weapons will be the same but effects will be differ from the class that uses it :)
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Postby UndeadHalfOrc » Mar 11 2010, 21:08

vladimir-maestro wrote:not new idea but this is a weapon improvements only. classes stays the same.


As I said, this is a replacement solution at best. But it does provide more incentive to use the might classes, without being drastic. If I made the weapons too good, then a warrior who invested 0 skill points in a weapon skill could perform almost as good as a warrior who invested 12 skill levels' worth of points.

vladimir-maestro wrote:i suggested add a class specification that would make classes differ from each other without weapon improvements - so weapons will be the same but effects will be differ from the class that uses it :)


This is beyond my skills :)
It would probably be easier to implement the Armsmaster skill anyway.

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Postby Variol » Mar 11 2010, 21:31

Too many classes are too much the same IMHO.

Give the Archer "0" magic, but give him GM bow, GM spear, master, or GM chain, expert body building, master perdeption...

Give the Paladin expert spirit and body only, and GM shield, mace, plate, master sword and axe, expert bow...

If the classes were more defined, it would make choosing them much more interesting.

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Postby vladimir-maestro » Mar 11 2010, 22:59

that can be done in mm7-9 but not in mm6! if hero can learn the skill - he could learn it at master level.
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Postby Variol » Mar 12 2010, 10:04

That's why I never liked 6 that much.

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Postby Kristo » Mar 12 2010, 11:48

d5, d7, d11? Those sure are some goofy looking dice. :D
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Postby motter28218 » Mar 15 2010, 1:40

I kinda did something similar except I just made 2-HAxes one handed so you could use them along with the shield, my Barbarian (I modded the classes a bit too) tore through just about anything with Conan, and wearing Aegis, Zeus, and Atlas, he could take one hell of a pounding.

Class attributes can be modded but you are correct it is pretty involved, you will need to know how to hex and also have the addresses in the exe file, Grayface was gracious enough to "get me started" with the first address and from there I was able to figure out the rest.

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Postby Macros the Black » Mar 16 2010, 12:22

Personally I don't see why those classes would need to be improved. They're more useful at the start of the game. And they're also there if you want to have a challenge. Since Might and Magic games lack a difficulty setting, I like the fact that different classes are more or less useful.

However, if you want to improve them, I say give Knights a way to cast buffs that fits with their class. Like, through alchemy or scrolls or something. Give them an easy way to make items that can cast these things. It would make solo knight games less boring/annoying, while keeping much of the challenge.
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Postby GreatEmerald » Mar 16 2010, 14:21

Macros the Black wrote:Since Might and Magic games lack a difficulty setting

No, MM2, MM4 and MM5 have difficulty settings. I don't remember if MM3 has one, though.

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Postby UndeadHalfOrc » Mar 16 2010, 14:56

speaking of All-Knights party, how are they supposed to kill diamond gargoyles and slimes, unless they find good wands early and in enough quantity?

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Postby Avonu » Mar 16 2010, 15:05

Fire Aura, of Inferno, of Lightning, of the Dragon, of Acid, of Cold, of Carnage weapons?

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Postby UndeadHalfOrc » Mar 16 2010, 16:51

I meant in MM6. No fire aura in MM6.

And weapons enchanted with magic damage seem harder to find.

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Postby tolich » Mar 16 2010, 21:50

Try to find Enchant Item Scroll, it works 50/50, but can enchant weapons too.

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Postby Macros the Black » Mar 17 2010, 11:35

GreatEmerald wrote:
Macros the Black wrote:Since Might and Magic games lack a difficulty setting

No, MM2, MM4 and MM5 have difficulty settings. I don't remember if MM3 has one, though.

Okay well correction: since MM6-8 lack a difficulty setting...
UndeadHalfOrc wrote:speaking of All-Knights party, how are they supposed to kill diamond gargoyles and slimes, unless they find good wands early and in enough quantity?

You don't have to kill them to complete the game. Personally I always skip the oozes in MM6 even on magic-heavy parties, and the gargoyles are few and far between.. They only exist in the silver cove overworld where you can ignore them iirc.

So my answer is you're not supposed to kill them at all.
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Postby Variol » Mar 17 2010, 17:43

You have to fight the gargoyles in the TCC expansion, to get to the archer chick.
Only the obsidian ones are a problem though.

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Postby UndeadHalfOrc » May 4 2010, 17:11

The knight (and archer+paladin) are much more balanced classes if you do this:

- give the knight 5 more magic resist at the start of the game to bring it to 15 (resists instant death+some status ailments better and damage from many enemies' projectiles and spells).
- axes, spears and swords stronger (especially axes) in items.txt
- I only allow the Archer and the Knight to master the bow (makes sense, the Knight is the weapons master).
- Apprentice, Mystic and Spellmaster NPCs banned (in MM7 they split them into sorcerer/clerical; in MM6 they boost all schools at once by +2, +3, +4 respectively).
- All magic boosting rings and amulets (including Morgan, Guinevere, and Igraine) banned too. That's because there are no corresponging "+X to Armsmaster" or "+X to Unarmed" items in MM6 since the skills don't exist.

I've also balanced the monsters a little bit. Most importantly, those monsters that had enemy preferences (character class, sex) have had them removed.

If you want my items.txt and monsters.txt (files directly useable by MM6 if you use grayface's patch) ask for it and I'll post links.

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Postby seancdaug » May 22 2010, 21:33

UndeadHalfOrc wrote:If you want my items.txt and monsters.txt (files directly useable by MM6 if you use grayface's patch) ask for it and I'll post links.

I'd be interested it giving them a try, if you don't mind sharing them.

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Postby UndeadHalfOrc » May 23 2010, 0:58

seancdaug wrote:
UndeadHalfOrc wrote:If you want my items.txt and monsters.txt (files directly useable by MM6 if you use grayface's patch) ask for it and I'll post links.

I'd be interested it giving them a try, if you don't mind sharing them.


There you go

http://pages.infinit.net/plague/balance.zip


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